BTCC - Croft (Yorkshire) - Rounds 10-12, 3rd June 07

[Hazard]

Pretty hectic race.

Lets call this a provisional result for the moment shall we

Well deserved first win for Darren though, and several laps of defending Plato's rear from Jordan in a strategy Ron Dennis would be proud of. Maybe it's 'Dennis' heritage?

Race 2 Result

Pos	Driver	No	Team	Car	Class	Time
1	Darren Turner	12	SEAT Sport UK	SEAT León	S2000	29:17.908
2	Jason Plato	11	SEAT Sport UK	SEAT León	S2000	0.374
3	Mike Jordan	77	Team Eurotech	Honda Integra Type-R	BTCC	3.326
4	Mat Jackson	48	Jackson Motorsport	BMW 320si E90	S2000	5.247
5	Gareth Howell	25	Motorbase Performance	SEAT Toledo Cupra	S2000	7.099
6	Fabrizio Giovanardi	5	VX Racing	Vauxhall Vectra	S2000	7.438
7	Tom Onslow-Cole	33	Team RAC	BMW 320si E90	S2000	11.856
8	Jason Hughes	28	Kartworld Racing	MG-ZS	BTCC	30.014
9	John George	55	TH Motorsport	Honda Integra Type-R	BTCC	39.849
10	Chris Stockton	43	BTC Racing	Lexus IS200	S2000	42.473
11	Jim Pocklington	45	J-Team Motorsport	BMW 320i E46	S2000	1:12.211
12	Martyn Bell	15	Team Allaboutproperty.com	BMW 320i E46	S2000	1 lap
13	Matt Neal	1	Team Halfords	Honda Civic	S2000	1 lap
14	Tom Chilton	7	VX Racing	Vauxhall Vectra	S2000	DNF
15	Erkut Kizilirmak	90	Arkas Racing	Vauxhall Astra Sport Hatch	BTCC	DNF
16	Simon Blanckley	69	Sibsport	Honda Integra Type-R	BTCC	DNF
17	Gordon Shedden	52	Team Halfords	Honda Civic	S2000	DNF
18	Dave Pinkney	56	A-Tech	Alfa Romeo 156	S2000	DNF
19	Matt Allison	23	Motorbase Performance	SEAT Toledo Cupra	S2000	DNF
20	Fiona Leggate	82	Kartworld Racing	MG-ZS	BTCC	DNF
21	Colin Turkington	3	Team RAC	BMW 320si E90	S2000	DNF
22	Eoin Murray	14	Quest Racing	Alfa Romeo 156	S2000	DNF
23	Richard Marsh	59	A-Tech	Alfa Romeo 156	S2000	DNF

[MikeH]

Frankly the second race was a joke from start to finish there... tyre walls and loose tyres destroying cars left right and centre, Plato wrecks Turkington and Giovanardi's day, team orders put Plato ahead of Turner then they do that pathetic Ferrari F1 thing and choreograph the finish to let Turner back through. Utterly awful...

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Odd how they are at every other Croft meeting but no one else seems to have a problem with them. The trick is to stay on the black stuff and not drive into the tyres.

I think my issue with them is that they are right on the kerbside - if they were set in such a way as they were only hit if you had four wheels off the track (as mandated in the MSA blue book) then it wouldn't be such a problem. It's the loose tyres rolling around and mashing up innocent cars and possibly getting flung into the crowd (also endangering marshalls who have to run out and get them) that are the big issue.

[redshoes]

The loose tyres will only be loose because someone hit the wall in the first place.

They are in the same place every year, for every race meeting, for every class of racing.

[Steve Gibson]

Originally Posted by MikeH

Frankly the second race was a joke from start to finish there... tyre walls and loose tyres destroying cars left right and centre ...

Oh my gawd I can just see the headlines in the Motoring Press

Rogue tyrewalls assault BTCC cars,
It was reported today that some of the tyrewalls at Croft savagly attacked passing cars and then after a coordinated group attack some "loose cannon tyres" went off on thier own and did thier own thing. As someone has already pointed out the damn things behave for most of the year only when they can get in the news do they show thier hand and cause mayhem.
Or could it be the standard of driving to blame?

Maybe think about what you are saying before posting, the tyre walls are in the same place all the time and cause little or no problems, only when driving standards are shambolic do they get hit!

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by rdjones

Been home an hour or so. What have we learnt from today, Colin Turkington is the man to watch tomorrow he has been really on it all day. As for qualifying that is one of the best sessions I have seen for a long long time, oh yes the Pinkey/Marsh Alfa's have a new paint job it was descriped as Schumacher Red....

Will the Red Baron fly today?

[TWRv12]

What happened to Murray in Race 1? Did he get out for Race2?

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

Maybe think about what you are saying before posting, the tyre walls are in the same place all the time and cause little or no problems, only when driving standards are shambolic do they get hit!

My apologies, forgot opinions are frowned upon! I'm just not a fan of having those things so close to the trackside - we've seen several examples of people who had nothing to do with hitting them in the first place receiving heavy damage from the loose tyres in the road.

[Steve Gibson]

Rogue tyrewalls assault BTCC cars,[/QUOTE]
A spokesman for "Tyre Walls Action Group" has issued this statement.
"We had been "banded together" for a long time and felt this was an ideal opportunity to get in the news and highlight the plight of your average tyrewall"
The circuit believe this to be a one off incident and have removed the offenders from the circuit and replaced them with some better trained individuals.
However I am reliably informed that another attack may be planned for later this afternoon.

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

What happened to Murray in Race 1? Did he get out for Race2?

He was out in race 2 but I think he lost his engine - the commentators seemed to think he dropped the oil on track.

[Hazard]

I saw a investigation note for a Howell and Onslow-Cole incident.

Thus far no penalties (mainly for Plato expected?) have been dished...Turner drew lucky number 9 so here's the grid for race 3.

1 - John George [55] - TH Motorsport - Honda Integra Type-R - 39.849

2 - Jason Hughes [28] - Kartworld Racing - MG-ZS - 30.014


3 - Tom Onslow-Cole [33] - Team RAC - BMW 320si E90 - 11.856

4 - Fabrizio Giovanardi [5] - VX Racing - Vauxhall Vectra - 7.438


5 - Gareth Howell [25] - Motorbase Performance - SEAT Toledo Cupra - 7.099

6 - Mat Jackson [48] - Jackson Motorsport - BMW 320si E90 - 5.247


7 - Mike Jordan [77] - Team Eurotech - Honda Integra Type-R - 3.326

8 - Jason Plato [11] - SEAT Sport UK - SEAT León - 0.374


9 - Darren Turner [12] - SEAT Sport UK - SEAT León - 29:17.908

10 - Chris Stockton [43] - BTC Racing - Lexus IS200 - 42.473


11 - Jim Pocklington [45] - J-Team Motorsport - BMW 320i E46 - 1:12.211

12 - Martyn Bell [15] - Team Allaboutproperty.com - BMW 320i E46 - 1 lap


13 - Matt Neal [1] - Team Halfords - Honda Civic - 1 lap

14 - Tom Chilton [7] - VX Racing - Vauxhall Vectra - DNF


15 - Erkut Kizilirmak [90] - Arkas Racing - Vauxhall Astra Sport Hatch - DNF

16 - Simon Blanckley [69] - Sibsport - Honda Integra Type-R - DNF


17 - Gordon Shedden [52] - Team Halfords - Honda Civic - DNF

18 - Dave Pinkney [56] - A-Tech - Alfa Romeo 156 - DNF


19 - Matt Allison [23] - Motorbase Performance - SEAT Toledo Cupra - DNF

20 - Fiona Leggate [82] - Kartworld Racing - MG-ZS - DNF


21 - Colin Turkington [3] - Team RAC - BMW 320si E90 - DNF

22 - Eoin Murray [14] - Quest Racing - Alfa Romeo 156 - DNF


23 - Richard Marsh [59] - A-Tech - Alfa Romeo 156 - DNF


Car graphics by Andy Blackmore - www.andyblackmore.co.uk

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by MikeH

He was out in race 2 but I think he lost his engine - the commentators seemed to think he dropped the oil on track.

Sounds expensive. Lost one at the last meeting too. Hope he has spare this time.

[Sodemo]

Plato should have gotten a penalty for his move in race 2.

Typical crash and pass Plato.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by The Monster

Plato should have gotten a penalty for his move in race 2.

Typical crash and pass Plato.

Not only punt 'em Plato but also Neal needs to get penalised for race 1!

[Smokey 6 litre]

Dont like Seat playing god with the result in race 2, i get his excuse for swapping because you get the extra point but why let Turner back through just before the line, they had quite a few laps to do it!

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

Rogue tyrewalls assault BTCC cars,

A spokesman for "Tyre Walls Action Group" has issued this statement.
"We had been "banded together" for a long time and felt this was an ideal opportunity to get in the news and highlight the plight of your average tyrewall"
The circuit believe this to be a one off incident and have removed the offenders from the circuit and replaced them with some better trained individuals.
However I am reliably informed that another attack may be planned for later this afternoon.[/QUOTE]

More like something on a horrible numpty rallycross track, and even then I hate them.

[Hazard]

Race 3 Result

Pos	Driver	No	Team	Car	Class	Time
1	Fabrizio Giovanardi	5	VX Racing	Vauxhall Vectra	S2000	24:00.874
2	Tom Onslow-Cole	33	Team RAC	BMW 320si E90	S2000	3.628
3	Mat Jackson	48	Jackson Motorsport	BMW 320si E90	S2000	8.601
4	Gordon Shedden	52	Team Halfords	Honda Civic	S2000	9.067
5	Darren Turner	12	SEAT Sport UK	SEAT León	S2000	14.131
6	Matt Neal	1	Team Halfords	Honda Civic	S2000	14.536
7	Tom Chilton	7	VX Racing	Vauxhall Vectra	S2000	15.294
8	Jason Plato	11	SEAT Sport UK	SEAT León	S2000	16.071
9	Colin Turkington	3	Team RAC	BMW 320si E90	S2000	16.819
10	Mike Jordan	77	Team Eurotech	Honda Integra Type-R	BTCC	17.799
11	Jason Hughes	28	Kartworld Racing	MG-ZS	BTCC	31.120
12	Dave Pinkney	56	A-Tech	Alfa Romeo 156	S2000	42.253
13	Fiona Leggate	82	Kartworld Racing	MG-ZS	BTCC	1:14.891
14	Jim Pocklington	45	J-Team Motorsport	BMW 320i E46	S2000	2 laps
15	Matt Allison	23	Motorbase Performance	SEAT Toledo Cupra	S2000	DNF
16	John George	55	TH Motorsport	Honda Integra Type-R	BTCC	DNF
17	Gareth Howell	25	Motorbase Performance	SEAT Toledo Cupra	S2000	DNF
18	Martyn Bell	15	Team Allaboutproperty.com	BMW 320i E46	S2000	DNF
19	Chris Stockton	43	BTC Racing	Lexus IS200	S2000	DNF
20	Erkut Kizilirmak	90	Arkas Racing	Vauxhall Astra Sport Hatch	BTCC	DNF

[Steve Gibson]

Originally Posted by TWRv12

More like something on a horrible numpty rallycross track, and even then I hate them.

All I can say is "I hope they never get to race on a street circuit" what will they do then complain that the barriers are too close and have them moved back a few feet!

As an ex driver said the organisers need to look at them and do something about them, no, they need to look at the driving standards and do something about them, if the drivers stay on the race track they will not hit the tyres. Sort out the ones cutting corners and dislodging tyres and the poor innocents who get the aftermath won't have to worry about tyres on the track.
Has anyone been penalised for anything today?

[cos]

Originally Posted by Smokey 6 litre

Dont like Seat playing god with the result in race 2, i get his excuse for swapping because you get the extra point but why let Turner back through just before the line, they had quite a few laps to do it!

Turner looked faster to me in that race and deserved the win, but to reshuffle the order like that on the last lap wasn't the best move. Letting Plato lead one lap in the middle of the race would have been more sensible.

[MikeH]

A Seat Leon just touched the unsecured tyre wall (wheel was still on the actual kerb after a look at the slo-mo replay) which caused it to explode in a few directions - some marshalls almost got hit and the following car smacked an airborne tyre so hard it's caved in the top of the windscreen. Bit lower and it probably would have gone straight though and smacked the driver full on.

All perfectly okay of course... having those tyres unsecured on the edge of the kerbing is absolutely fine. The drivers should just avoid them - some bystander getting a tyre in the face will teach them!

[touringlegend]

Not a fan of the tyres either, but remember the dirt that ended up on the track last year at Croft ? If the officials don't want drivers cutting corners they should decide that any tyres over the kerbs on the dirt incurs a penalty, intentional or not.


I don't see the problem with the last lap swap over in Race 2 between Turner and Plato. That was a fair thing to do, does it matter if it was done 5 laps from the end or at the end, and as Tim Harvey put it this aint F1 !

[Hazard]

Yeah, I'd have only been annoyed if it hadn't happened. Been looking forward to Turner's first win for a while...now the monkey's gone, I wouldn't rule him out of the title running still - it's only bad luck that's been against him so far.

Only 2 points between Plato & Giovanardi now.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by MikeH

My apologies, forgot opinions are frowned upon!

Nothing wrong with opinions, but yours came across as a rant of Matt Neal proportions. Actually I thought at first you were quoting Matt Neal

Originally Posted by Steve Gibson

All I can say is "I hope they never get to race on a street circuit"

Was thinking the same thing. WTCC get to race round the streets of Pau this weekend, for them something as soft as a stack of tyres to run into would be a luxury. Macau is even worse when it comes to concrete walls and no run-off.

Originally Posted by MikeH

A Seat Leon just touched the unsecured tyre wall (wheel was still on the actual kerb after a look at the slo-mo replay) which caused it to explode in a few directions

The tyres are secured in stacks with each stack only lightly joined to it's neighbour. If/when they get hit the stacks are meant to disperse the energy. If they are too tightly bundled together they become relatively unmoveable - you might as well build a concrete wall in it's place. Actually I noticed for the later BTCC races the tyres that Allison hit we replaced with a single banded together wall. Had someone hit that the effect would have been even worse.

[MikeH]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Nothing wrong with opinions, but yours came across as a rant of Matt Neal proportions. Actually I thought at first you were quoting Matt Neal

I was - just forgot to add that the tyres deliberately ran into me and that I was totally innocent.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by touringlegend

I don't see the problem with the last lap swap over in Race 2 between Turner and Plato. That was a fair thing to do, does it matter if it was done 5 laps from the end or at the end, and as Tim Harvey put it this aint F1 !

Of course, we rarely see this kind of thing in the BTCC.