If the 2010 P1 cars look like this...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Zytek_Fan

There's just one problem with the coupes of the late 90s (the Mercedes CLR, Porsche GT1 98, Audi R8C...) they were notorious for aero issues, specifically, the Mercedes and Porsche being blown over, and the Audi R8C having its door and bonnet cover sucked off. So I would think a design like that is out of the question.

But that was because of the flat bottom and other aero issues.

The 2010 coupes (well 2008 if someone builds one in time) will have a similar chassis/underbody to a current car, only the bodywork will be different.

We saw in the Group C days there were many different interpretations of nose design, even before single seater style noses became popular.

These days it seems everyone has the same nose, adding your own style and personality to a car is no longer possible.

Gordon Murray states by going back to cleaner designes, a manufactuer has more leeway to add the corporate 'face' to the car.

[kingkai]

@ 1st post:
Isn't that the new circuit Zonda racer, like the FXX? I thought I read somewhere, with the same sort of pictures that was suposed to be the new circuit racer like the FXX and nothing to do with racing.

[TRuss]

I have to agree. I think this is what the ACO is looking for. The late '90s attracted several OEMs. Factory teams from Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes, Porsche and BMW(even thoug it was open). I believe the cars will look like the R390, CLK LM and maybe the Audi coupe. Some beautiful machines came out of that era. Plus I have a fondness for those years so I really hope thats the direction things are headed.

[Purist]

I take it it's just the bodywork that people don't want to look like formula cars with fenders? Or do some not want the underlying structure to be like a formula car either?

I certainly wouldn't mind GT1-looking machinery. By the same token, I thought the Panoz LMP1 and Chrysler/Mopar LMP looked great as well. The Bentley EXP Speed 8 look isn't bad at all either. However, I do not particularly care for the looks of the Peugeot 908.

[Zytek_Fan]

Originally Posted by JAG

But that was because of the flat bottom and other aero issues.

The 2010 coupes (well 2008 if someone builds one in time) will have a similar chassis/underbody to a current car, only the bodywork will be different.

We saw in the Group C days there were many different interpretations of nose design, even before single seater style noses became popular.

These days it seems everyone has the same nose, adding your own style and personality to a car is no longer possible.

Gordon Murray states by going back to cleaner designes, a manufactuer has more leeway to add the corporate 'face' to the car.

I can see you what you mean. By cleaning up the cars a bit, the aero could prolly be cleaned up. Maybe a fusion of Group C and late 90s GT1? That photoshop Audi R10 coupe looks good, however the nose could look better.

The Creation and Radical coupe concept art definitely look better than the Peugeot 908

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Purist

I take it it's just the bodywork that people don't want to look like formula cars with fenders? Or do some not want the underlying structure to be like a formula car either?

Bodywork

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Bodywork

Can-Am II was formula cars with fenders and it sucked; any series that is faux sports cars, sucks just as bad.

CHange the name or make real prototypes. the sanctions seemt to be milking the ignorance of the public, with the public's blessing.

Bob

[juicy sushi]

i'd love to see cars like the R390 or the saleen s7 or the porsche photos i posted in another thread. that audi mock-up is hideous, as are the zonda and the peugeot 908.

if the cars were looking a *little* bit more like road cars, with more manufacturer identity, i think they'd be a heck of a lot sexier.

but i guess we'll just have to wait and see what the ACO and others decide...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Can-Am II was formula cars with fenders and it sucked; any series that is faux sports cars, sucks just as bad.

CHange the name or make real prototypes. the sanctions seemt to be milking the ignorance of the public, with the public's blessing.

Bob

What are you talking about, Can-Am II were single seaters with fenders, current cars are pure sportscars, the ACO simply want to stamp down on single seater styling which is moving the cars away from traditional sportscar shapes and any chance these cars could influence future road going performance cars.

The only ignorance on show is a reluctance to move with the times, and that doesn't mean settling for second best.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by juicy sushi

i'd love to see cars like the R390 or the saleen s7 or the porsche photos i posted in another thread. that audi mock-up is hideous, as are the zonda and the peugeot 908.

The R12C mockup? That looks like a good idea to me, just the grille looks a bit rubbish.

[Matt]

I'd prefer something EXACTLY like this.

[gucom]

doesnt look bad at all, but some more recognisable headlights and something of a recognisable grille (XK oval grille with chrome "bar" in the middle?), set a bit higher so the differende between fenders and nose isn't as big, would no doubt please the ACO and lots of fans, including me...

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by JAG

What are you talking about, Can-Am II were single seaters with fenders, current cars are pure sportscars, the ACO simply want to stamp down on single seater styling which is moving the cars away from traditional sportscar shapes and any chance these cars could influence future road going performance cars.

The only ignorance on show is a reluctance to move with the times, and that doesn't mean settling for second best.

Maybe you should read the post I was responding to before you flatulate with your keyboard.

The cars are as much sports car, as the rules force them to be.
If they could eliminate the passenger seat it would be gone in a heartbeat.

True prototypes are have a cockpit designed to carry two people, not put there because they have to.

[HORNDAWG]

You both are saying basically the same thing! That Can-Am II was F-1 with fenders and it stank! Where you depart is your opinion of the current cars. While I understand and agree with Bob that the second seat, which IMO makes it a Sports Car, is rather lacking since I doubt you could even fit Twiggy in there! But, on Jags behalf, they are built to the current accepted definition of a Sports Car Prototype. So now we are at the juncture of what is going to be the new cockpit configuration that will be in the 2010 rules for the P-1/GT-1 amalgam. I myself would prefer a wider cockpit configuration where the windscreen is much closer to the side of the cars, ala Saleen, MC12, something where you could actually seat 2 people in it side by side with their shoulders at or above the side pod deck height and still be able to function (move).


L.P.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

That Can-Am II was F-1 with fenders and it stank!
L.P.

Technically, they were Formula 5000 chassis at first. The March later on had common chassis to F1 and Indy I believe.

There doesn't seem to be any move to rebody formula cars at present, except in Japan (as far as I am aware--ignoring the SCCA sports racer classes)

GOOD!

[Purist]

If it looks good, I don't really care about the two seat thing. I mean, you're never actually going to have a second person in there! Form follows function, right?! These are NOT even silhouette cars. These are purpose-built prototypes, pure and simple.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Purist

If it looks good, I don't really care about the two seat thing. I mean, you're never actually going to have a second person in there! Form follows function, right?! These are NOT even silhouette cars. These are purpose-built prototypes, pure and simple.

They are not prototypes they are sports racers.

Ford GT, Ferrrari P4, even the Porsche 962 were prototypes that could be and were driven on the street carrying TWO people.

Bob

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Purist

If it looks good, I don't really care about the two seat thing. I mean, you're never actually going to have a second person in there! Form follows function, right?! These are NOT even silhouette cars. These are purpose-built prototypes, pure and simple.

But the point being that they are prototype Sports Cars . LeMans and its affiliated series are supposed to be Sports Cars.

"LE MANS"PROTOTYPE ("LM" P1 & "LM" P2)
Règlement Technique pour Prototype

Technical Regulations for Prototype

1.8 - Cockpit :

Internal volume of the car to accommodate the driver and the
passenger.

• Closed car :
1.8.1 - The cockpit is the internal volume inside the main structure
which is defined by the top of the car, the floor, the doors, the

side panels, the glass areas and the front and rear bulkheads

L.P.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

But the point being that they are prototype Sports Cars . LeMans and its affiliated series are supposed to be Sports Cars.

L.P.

ANd before some narcissistic dudes decided they wanted to be sanction gods, they were called SR--sports racer.

Bob

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by Matt

I'd prefer something EXACTLY like this.

sex on wheels, the 3.5 litre car's would be too advanced aerdynamically though, i think they generated more downforce than the current LMP car's but to look like that would be great.

not like the dog ugly R12C concept shown on here, christ that was hideous.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

They are not prototypes they are sports racers.

Ford GT, Ferrrari P4, even the Porsche 962 were prototypes that could be and were driven on the street carrying TWO people.

Bob

The Bentley Speed 8 is currently doing the rounds giving rides to guests.

[rcarr]

So what if they produce so much downforce? It adds to the spectacle of the prototypes, I think current open cars are just plain ugly, they should ban all aero devices and see what the manufacturers come up with the race could be more about mechanical grip and straight line speed or they could go back to the atmo cars of the early 90s, the Peugeot 905 Evo 1 and the Toyota TS10s at Le Mans 92 and 93 looked fantastic, the current Peugeot 908 is getting there but I don't like the F1-style raised nose.

[Adam43]

Do you want downforce, or ban all aero devices?

[The Badger]

Too much downforce can take away from the spectacle too .

A currant day LMP1 looks a lot better going through Tetre Rouge for example than a Group C car did .... Group C looked better , but had a hell of a lot of aero as did the TS-020 .

[Dutton]

I consider aero exploitation as a natural domain of prototype racing in the modern age. It is still not fully understood, even by the Grand High Aero-Nerds of the world's industries that enhance such things. Despite their vast knowledge, and vast technologies, aerodynamics is still something of a "black art".

If the continuing investigation and exploitation of this field is not part of the prototype industry, then I must start to question what "prototype" is being taken to mean.