US Grand Prix- Austin (USA)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

The problem is if you hold the race in the summer, it's too warm in Austin, but later the season it gets very cold in Montreal.

That's very true. I was thinking more on the lines of both races being held earlier on in the season, before the European races, so making only one trip to North America.

[duke_toaster]

To be honest I'd rather that Austin was near the end, to ramp up the interest in the US. Especially bearing in mind the dire amount of exposure F1 gets over there.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

To be honest I'd rather that Austin was near the end, to ramp up the interest in the US. Especially bearing in mind the dire amount of exposure F1 gets over there.

I suppose if the WDC hasn't been decided by then that would certainly generate interest. It would be a shame, if after all this the US GP became an after thought like Abu Dhabi. The US is big market that F1 and it's various sponsors need to take advantage of.

[BobHWS]

The citizens of Austin and local newspapers, taking their cue from a report about the Australian GP, are gradually realizing an Austin F1 race would be a classic boondogle. Be sure to read the comments after the article...and don't drink any more of the Kool Aid being served by Bernie and Tavo.

Australian government under fire for F1 losses
statesman.com
Sept. 16, 2010

Australian media are reporting today that the cost to taxpayers of hosting the Australian Grand Prix has grown 15-fold in the past dozen years. This year, the bill to the Victoria state government was nearly $50 million, up from $3.2 million in 1998...

...In Austin, the sole government funding announced has been the $25 million a year for 10 years that the state has committed from its Major Events Trust Fund. For the first year, 2012, the $25 million is to be taken out of the state’s general revenue fund. After that, the $25 million in annual government financing, which will go toward the sanctioning fee local organizers must pay the international F1 organization, is to be generated by tax revenue attributable to the previous year’s race. Race organizers must show each year that the event has made the state at least $25 million.

County court seeks more F1 Austin details
Austin Business Journal
Sept. 16, 2010

Travis County Commissioners expect to hear another briefing from local Formula One attorney Richard Suttle next week, county officials said.

Suttle initially briefed the county court on Sept. 7, and in that meeting Commissioner Sarah Eckhardt announced it could take up to 12 hours to reach the race due to lack of transportation planning.

Suttle did not have answers to many of the commissioner’s questions, and some of the court can be heard laughing when told that developers hope to break ground by December...

[Jacques Rabbit]

A video from that Travis County commission meeting being referenced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vph_Bdvm-kU

It's long, but you can see the commissioners really aren't buying it, and that this event is so poorly-planned currently. Hearing them laugh at Mr. Suttle is priceless. This thing isn't happening, and it shouldn't. I don't mean to be political here, but I don't see why Texas taxpayers should have to pay for something they never got to vote on.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

A video from that Travis County commission meeting being referenced:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vph_Bdvm-kU

It's long, but you can see the commissioners really aren't buying it, and that this event is so poorly-planned currently. Hearing them laugh at Mr. Suttle is priceless. This thing isn't happening, and it shouldn't. I don't mean to be political here, but I don't see why Texas taxpayers should have to pay for something they never got to vote on.

No taxation without representation.

[BobHWS]

More evidence that the area where Bernie and Tavo want to build the Austin F1 track lacks the infrastructure to support it:

F1 Austin energy unknown
Friday, September 17, 2010
Austin Business Journal - by Jacob Dirr ABJ Staff

Curious to know how much energy it takes to power a Formula One race track near Austin? So is Austin Energy.

As developers race to finish the $200 million track by 2012, in time for the inaugural Austin grand prix, and with the anticipated start of construction about three months away, no one seems to know how much energy the track will need or how it will be delivered...

...If the track requires something like a transformer substation, there could be a photo finish at the deadline. Such infrastructure, which costs about $1 million, takes 12 to 18 months to order and install, Mele said.

[BobHWS]

The story continues

Study: Road work can't be finished before F1 race
Promoters more optimistic than officials about improvements to help fans exit quickly.
statesman.com
Sept. 22, 2010

Clearing fans from a planned Formula One racetrack southeast of Austin within three hours would take as much as $15 million in major road improvements which even in the best case could not be completed by the projected 2012 opening date, according to an analysis of the site performed by Travis County planners...

...During his initial presentation two weeks ago, Full Throttle Productions attorney Richard Suttle fielded sharp questions from commissioners about the F1 organizers' lack of traffic studies and other basic information that county officials said they needed to make even preliminary decisions about the project...

...Taking into account the time needed to purchase rights of way, move utilities and lay pavement, "two years is not enough time to put in the infrastructure needed to get down to three hours," he said. "I would not look for the major improvements to be done by the first race."

[djb]

hey, the sauve guy in the suit in the city counsel video says he is confident it can all be done...why not believe him?
I very much feel a lot of this sort of planning relies on betting that the local govt will pony up the funds for infrastructure beefups or setups in this case, as the ramping up of "excitement" and "tourism to the region" etc etc gets played to the hilt.

I am no bean counter, but when you are dealing with a brand new track, in a country where F1 is not really on the radar that much (you know what I mean, compared to Nascar) the risks are enormous,especially given the experiences of some new tracks in the F1 world (oligarchy state sponsership) and/or cases like Montreal or Australia where the cost of having a race is just more than what comes in.

Will people see that Mr. Ecclestone and suave-suited fellow are not wearing any clothes? Is a new track in the US economically feasible? Who knows.

Unlike the group of countries who have recently thrown money at F1 lately for the "prestige" and "international recognition" (while with a background reality of let the masses eat cake--you know what I mean, countries with other issues bigger than F1)
the US, Texas, and specifically this city and county, will hopefully be a bit more level headed and pragmatic about the implications of getting onto this hampster-wheel of events and costs--and I am sure are following the Australia-type concerns with a wary eye.

[davyboy]

Donington version 2.

There's a very interesting article here by Dieter Rencken on the financial issues facing Formula One. He's essentially saying that everyone's loosing money in F1 except Bernie. Seems Texas taxpayers are next in line for a sucker punch from this wretched svengali.

Autosport article.

[BobHWS]

A columnist for the Austin newspaper weighs in on the traffic controversy surrounding the proposed Austin F1 track.

F1 post-race traffic may lead to private "turnpikes" across farm fields
John Kelso, Commentary
statesman.com
Saturday, Sept. 25, 2010

Formula One's new marketing slogan? How about, "If You Build It, They Will Come. But They Can't Leave."

OK, so Formula One fans can leave after the race is over, but by the time they get home their dog will have peed on the carpet two or three times. And it might no longer recognize the owner and bite him on the ankle...

..Here's the catch. Clearing fans out of the parking lot will probably take longer than one actual race. Although an F1 race event goes on for an entire weekend, a single F1 Grand Prix race has a two-hour time limit. And being able to get all 120,000 race fans out of the parking lot within three hours will require some additional roadwork first. According to Travis County planners, we're looking at $15 million in major road improvements in the Elroy area before we can empty the parking lot in three hours.

And there's no way those improvements can be done in time for the projected 2012 opening...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Donington version 2.

There's a very interesting article here by Dieter Rencken on the financial issues facing Formula One. He's essentially saying that everyone's loosing money in F1 except Bernie. Seems Texas taxpayers are next in line for a sucker punch from this wretched svengali.

Autosport article.

I'm not an Autosport subscriber, so couldn't read the entire article. Does he say anything about how F1 has expanded in terms of the number of GPs now on the calendar and the number of different countries now hosting and wishing to host GPs?

[Purist]

I don't buy the 12 hour figure for a second. Having the final lines of entry into a road course in this country being two lanes is VERY NORMAL. And it doesn't take three hours to get out of Watkins Glen, even when you can't spot a single traffic cop directing things at the first couple of intersections that you have to pass through to get out.

As for people complaining about no support facilities, if a location has them, it's ALREADY developed, which means you'll NEVER be able to put a track there anyway (because of NIMBYs). So, the only places you can put a track nowadays are those areas that do NOT have such developments, and thus don't have the support facilities, or at least not in the abundance "required" for an event like this.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Purist

I don't buy the 12 hour figure for a second. Having the final lines of entry into a road course in this country being two lanes is VERY NORMAL. And it doesn't take three hours to get out of Watkins Glen, even when you can't spot a single traffic cop directing things at the first couple of intersections that you have to pass through to get out.

As for people complaining about no support facilities, if a location has them, it's ALREADY developed, which means you'll NEVER be able to put a track there anyway (because of NIMBYs). So, the only places you can put a track nowadays are those areas that do NOT have such developments, and thus don't have the support facilities, or at least not in the abundance "required" for an event like this.

From what I've heard work hasn't actually started on the track.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I'm not an Autosport subscriber, so couldn't read the entire article. Does he say anything about how F1 has expanded in terms of the number of GPs now on the calendar and the number of different countries now hosting and wishing to host GPs?

He doesn't... but rather he emphasizes that those hosting GPs are doing so at significant losses, primarily because of the huge fees charged by Bernie and CVC. The teams fare no better as we all know. This seems a pretty shocking situation if true :

Quote from Dieter Rencken " For every five quid thus pocketed by the CRH, whether via fees, TV rights or licensing, the 12 current teams receive on average a paltry 40p due to the financial structure of the 2010-2012 Concorde Agreement. By contrast, teams such as Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull arguably have higher overheads than does FOM, resulting in the present imbalance. "

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by davyboy

He doesn't... but rather he emphasizes that those hosting GPs are doing so at significant losses, primarily because of the huge fees charged by Bernie and CVC. The teams fare no better as we all know. This seems a pretty shocking situation if true :

Quote from Dieter Rencken " For every five quid thus pocketed by the CRH, whether via fees, TV rights or licensing, the 12 current teams receive on average a paltry 40p due to the financial structure of the 2010-2012 Concorde Agreement. By contrast, teams such as Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull arguably have higher overheads than does FOM, resulting in the present imbalance. "

Thanks. I thought the situation might be something like that and it's not good. Ecclestone was being interviewed by Eddie Jordan on the BBC and one of the questions was about the number of races and new tracks like S. Korea and Austin. Ecclestone appeared to cast his doubts on S. Korea happening this year but envisioned a 20 race series with some of the older tracks losing GP status and being replaced, as they are not up to standard, whatever standard means.

From what Dieter Rencken is saying F1 is rapidly expanding and becoming financially unsustainable for teams and tracks alike. There are similarities to the demise of CART and we all know the direction US open wheel racing has taken since then. However, F1 is in a better position than CART was.

Though there is a nucleus of F1 teams there are Tthe various multi-national sponsors that F1 cant do without. If F1 becomes to expensive, coupled with slow global economic growth, as the world emerges from recession, sponsors may very well turn to cheaper racing series. Pretty much all the big multi-nationals involved in CART didn't move with many of the teams to the IRL, they went to NASCAR.

[Spritle]

More good news for Austinites to read:

http://en.espnf1.com/singapore/motor...ory/29588.html

Governments are finally waking up to the Extortionist's smoke & mirrors that this F1 thing will make them money.

"F1 racing; making friends wherever it goes"

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spritle

More good news for Austinites to read:

http://en.espnf1.com/singapore/motor...ory/29588.html

Governments are finally waking up to the Extortionist's smoke & mirrors that this F1 thing will make them money.

"F1 racing; making friends wherever it goes"

Ecclestone will simply go elsewhere; Russia want to host a GP, Charlie Whiting was seen in Qatar earlier on this year so we very well may have another Gulf-State GP, France wants to be back on the Calendar; he hasn't run out of tracks or countries yet but if he carries on going the way he is, with those massive fees eventually countries even like Bahrain will realise the money is going into Ecclestone's pocket, for very little return.

[jab]

Interesting comments from Mr Brundle on the BBC post-race forum yesterday - he basically said it's not going to happen. So if that's the consensus in the paddock...

I honestly can't say which is more likely to go ahead - this or Korea. Probably Korea

[davyboy]

It would seem that Bernie's model involves squeezing as much as he can from those silly or wealthy enough to want to be involved with him... once dry he disposes of them in favour of the next bunch of suckers. Yes its completely short termist, but why bother to take the long term view when you have these 'stakeholders' lining up like lemmings.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by jab

Interesting comments from Mr Brundle on the BBC post-race forum yesterday - he basically said it's not going to happen. So if that's the consensus in the paddock...

I honestly can't say which is more likely to go ahead - this or Korea. Probably Korea

Korea may not even happen this year.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Regarding Bernie's shorttermism and not wanting to be morbid, how many years has Bernie got left?

[ECW Dan Selby]

Morbid but interesting question lol Who does F1 go to when he dies?

Selby

[Greem]

That depends how much of his soul he has left to hock to him downstairs, doesn't it?

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Regarding Bernie's shorttermism and not wanting to be morbid, how many years has Bernie got left?

I've had a countdown calendar for years!



Despite the lemmings in the queue, his business model could potentially spell the permanent doom of F1 in the USA which is the task at hand.

While I'd dearly love to see F1 return to the States, I sincerely hope that the end result isn't another "wham, bang, thank you ma'am" situation which leaves some unsuspecting locality bleeding a negative cash flow which has to picked up by the taxpayers, only to have the race disappear when the price goes up and another lemming comes forward.

I would rather see no race in the US rather than see Austin get screwed by the likes of Bernard the Carpetbagger. Maybe they will be smart enough to send him packing before they are left a lot poorer and holding the bag.