TCR International Series

[DS"]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Honda switching to the Type-R engine package:

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2015/...ype-r-for-tcr/

Interesting to see interest from the German market being mentioned again. I wonder if that's for the international series or if there are plans for a domestic series. With Procar very much ruling out TCR for the moment and probably precluding a rival touring car series from being part of the ADAC GT-package, I really don't see who would put on such a series. And the only package they could conceivably be a part of is DTM, which I just don't see happening...

I still that the ITR should look at TCR as another support series for DTM. First of all, they could boost the support package of DTM quite a bit. Then they could establish some sort of German racing ladder: TT-Cup > TCR Germany > GT Masters > DTM. On the other hand, the ITR hasn't really been welcoming towards private teams, let alone willing to launch a series below DTM for private entries.

[Juntos]

Does someone explain what is Onyx Engineering doing with the Ford? Look as close as you want.

[Go_For_Pole]

Italiaracing reports that the Focus will be taken over by Proteam for development. Most probably Onyx have no money to proceed. Obviously if Campos were able to reach somewhere with the Astra so can others with their projects.

[helgi]

You don't need a superior tech staff to achieve high goals in a BoP series. If organizers feel a need to reshuffle order you'll be on top even with a soapbox racer.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by helgi

You don't need a superior tech staff to achieve high goals in a BoP series. If organizers feel a need to reshuffle order you'll be on top even with a soapbox racer.

Good luck though selling a car that breaks down all the time, has bad technical support and is rough around the edges. You might be able to get it on the podium, but in order to sell your product to other parties a solid package is definitely necessary.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by helgi

You don't need a superior tech staff to achieve high goals in a BoP series. If organizers feel a need to reshuffle order you'll be on top even with a soapbox racer.

It is not that simple. You still need racecraft

[FIRE]

Entertaining races at Monza.

[Pettersson]

So the Ford Focus is out again. A big joke so far... They said they would replace the gearbox already after the first round, but they are still using a gearbox they know is useless.

Is the TCR Ford a new build, or is it a conversion of one of Arena's old WTCC cars?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Pettersson

So the Ford Focus is out again. A big joke so far... They said they would replace the gearbox already after the first round, but they are still using a gearbox they know is useless.

Is the TCR Ford a new build, or is it a conversion of one of Arena's old WTCC cars?

The WTCC cars were sold to Robb Holland/Rotek.

[Go_For_Pole]

One wonders if Proteam are inheriting the whole project or just the car. Also rather surprising that MSport with their Ford ties haven't realised TCR's potential. They at least hav the capacity to run a customers programme

[mikuni]

I used to love WTCC and I am still trying to, but I just watch the Nurburgring races and oh my god, they were utterly terrible to watch.

I then watched the TCR races at Monza and I found it to be great viewing. It still needs work, but the cars look good. They bounce around the track nicely and have good change of direction. They don't look much slower than the WTCC cars and have a much better on track persona than current BTCC cars. Sound is probably the only draw back, but this is a mild criticism.

I'm so excited about this new touring car formula, and I think they really have found something with great potential. Not to mention the other aspects, like free streaming, youtube uploads and constant social media and website updates. Other forms of motorsport really do have a thing or two to learn from TCR already, I just hope they keep up the good work.

[Andrew Abbott]

Originally Posted by mikuni

They don't look much slower than the WTCC cars and have a much better on track persona than current BTCC cars. Sound is probably the only draw back, but this is a mild criticism.

Jordi Gené actually said that his TCR SEAT is slightly faster than the WTCC SEAT he raced in the late 2000s. I haven't verified this though.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by AndySpeed

Jordi Gené actually said that his TCR SEAT is slightly faster than the WTCC SEAT he raced in the late 2000s. I haven't verified this though.

that's possible. In the early 2000s the WTCC cars were NA and the diesel turbo Seats weren't any quicker. But current WTCC cars are very fast, just not particularly exciting.

[kurski]

Thailand to start national TCR championship in 2016

Duca Borkovic visiting the TCR International paddock in Austria.

Marcello Lotti was in Argentina last week. He spoke in a category that could have a version of the TCR Argentina.

[pimmy]

Does Argentina really need another touring car series? They already have STC2000, TC2000, Top Race V6 and Turismo Nacional. It would just be overkill.

[Bramzel]

Unless one of the existing championships were to adapt to the TCR rule set?

[Metzo]

Originally Posted by kurski

Thailand to start national TCR championship in 2016

Marcello Lotti was in Argentina last week. He spoke in a category that could have a version of the TCR Argentina.

dont know if thats good, they should build more cars instead creating more tcr series.

international series: recently only 15 cars at austria: 10 seats, 3 honda & 2 opel, the ford focus was missing and the 2 audi tt are not allowed to race in tcr anymore.
russian series: 3 cars entered - 3 seats
italian series: 1 car entered - 1 seat
portuguese series: no cars entered
us series: no cars entered

it seems like the concept of tcr is not working that well, its just a seat leon cup with a few guest cars.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by Metzo

it seems like the concept of tcr is not working that well, its just a seat leon cup with a few guest cars.

It is the first year of a new rule set. The cars don't come from no where, they have to be built. Plus, teams and manufacturers would want to make sure it is going to be a successful championship before committing. Think of all the classes of motorsport that have collapse over the years, leaving the teams with a huge investment in a car they cannot use anywhere else.

All this considered, the uptake has been very good. It is a chicken and egg situation this, building a successful series. As more teams manufacturers take up the opportunity, more teams will follow and more series as a result.

Having seen the rise and fall of many championships over the years, I think TCR has the makings for something great. The key is going to be the FIA championships I think. If some of the big touring car players like BTCC, WTCC, one of the Argentine series', and probably something from Germany take on the TCR rule set, even as a sub class in an existing series, then TCR will surely be a success. If this does not happen, it will be much more difficult.

[Metzo]

don't understand me wrong, i just wonder why they don't go the same way as they did with Super 2000 in 2002, 18+ cars, built by worksteams and privatiers, entered in each round, only used in one series (ETCC) instead of having multiply series (what's the point of making a series if nobody enters a car?) and host at least 3/4 of the races in europe instead of asia and south america to keep the travel costs down and attract more teams/more manufactureres (i doubt it's tcr's goal to have 2/3 of the field driving a seat) to get a bigger field to begin with. add races in asia and south america in 2016, maybe create 1-2 new tcr series if enough cars are available and if enough teams are interested. they should've gone step by step instead of trying too much at once, i mean how do you want to feed 5 series with enough cars if only 20-22 tcr cars are available worldwide? so far only 6 new tcr cars (3 honda, 2 opel, 1 ford) have been built, that's pretty weak.

[mikuni]

Ok, I see what you are saying, but I think my point still rings true.

If Lotti can show manufacturers that if they build a car it can be run in several different championships around the world, and appeal to more spectators in vastly different countries and continents, they are more likely to actually want to build a car.

Motorsport is vastly different now to what it was in 2002. A series cannot survive in Europe alone, that much is certain. It needs Asia and America to survive financially, and if TCR can push into these areas, it has a much higher chance of being successful.

I believe if TCR was only an ETCC replacement it would stutter for a couple of years with poor grids and then disappear. That might happen anyway, but I think Lotti is giving it the best opportunity possible for success with his business model.

Sure Seat are the main entrant right now, but that is because the cars were there. Many of the cars on the grid were already there, the Audi TT's, the Opel's. The cars that have been developed in a short timeframe are showing this, look at the Ford for instance.

Opel and Subaru have both committed to building a TCR car. I think VW are bringing something through too, possibly from Audi. As more manufactures commit, more will follow and once the cars are there, it will be easier for the teams to buy them and run them.

[helgi]

Excuse me for interrupting your dialogue, but I've read some comments by Gianni Morbidelli after Salzburgring qualifying where he said: "Kevin did a very good lap. He was alone and I had the advantage as I had the slipstream from him, so I must congratulate him for the great performance that he did today."
It's strange. I always thought that slipstream is beneficial for both who drive closely as drag reduces for the front car too.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by helgi

I always thought that slipstream is beneficial for both who drive closely as drag reduces for the front car too.

Well, that's what I learned from Days of Thunder....

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Well, that's what I learned from Days of Thunder....

Well, don't forget that in that movie they had the advantage of a 23-speed gearbox

Those guys changed gears more often during one lap on an oval than a normal driver during one lap on the Nordschleife

[helgi]

OK, another tech question. Maybe, I've missed a bit, but who has built engines for J.A.S.? Mugen? So, since Monza they use Type-R motor - or is it just a rebranding? If it's an almost standard engine, that you can buy at usual dealership, then it's really more suitable for teams in national TCR series. But as far as I understand Honda's advantage is engine power - the car is good at fast tracks, but do national tracks have enough room for that top speeds? Wouldn't it better to buy Leon that suits more twisted tracks?

[FIRE]

IIRC Mugen is building the engines.

And these engines are far from standard. It would not surprise me if a TC1 engine costs half a TCR car.