Mercedes second seat?

[JeremySmith]

I have never really understood the dislike of Lewis from some fans comments that I read at different sites, overall I think he is a pretty well balanced individual and a darn good racer ready to take on anyone

[ASCII Man]

I disliked Vettel with the same passion when he was winning as well.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

I disliked Vettel with the same passion when he was winning as well.

I have to admit I felt much the same, although, like Jeremy, I read a lot of stuff and nonsense here and elsewhere about Lewis. I'm a Brit, but I don't 'follow' Hamilton, but I do know he's a bloody good driver. I'm more interested in Max's career, if I'm honest.

[Dutton]

I don't quite understand where a lot of the negativity regarding Bottas comes from. He seems like a pretty good driver to me. Certainly absolutely ideal for the slot given the sudden nature of gap to fill.

Is he Nico standard? Good easily be. If so, then absolutely more than adequate. If he was a shade worse it could arguably be preferable for Mercedes.

I certainly haven't seen anything to make me think he will not be at least adequate.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

I disliked Vettel with the same passion when he was winning as well.

Ditto... but mainly because RBR were screwing Mr Webber out of possibilities afforded to Mr Vettel...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I have never really understood the dislike of Lewis from some fans comments that I read at different sites, overall I think he is a pretty well balanced individual and a darn good racer ready to take on anyone

That comment is just a trigger to start the "Why Lewis sucks" with replies of "Here is why he is awesome" discussion all over again!

Richard

[Red]

I've heard that the new Top Gear is a disaster and The Stig is looking for a new job...

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Red

I've heard that the new Top Gear is a disaster and The Stig is looking for a new job...

The Stig (Gordon Shedden) just won his 3rd BTCC championship, hence he is gainfully employed driving tin-tops, but does not have any relevant single seater experience, so count him out!

[bella]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Is he Nico standard? Good easily be. If so, then absolutely more than adequate. If he was a shade worse it could arguably be preferable for Mercedes.

it's funny you ask whether he's up to rosberg standards - wasn't there a similar apathy about rosberg when he left williams for mercedes?

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hamilton deserves respect for not being afraid to race against his team mates on equal terms. He doesn't the insecurity of Schumi

My response was to S Griffins post that Lewis is prepared to race against anybody and my mention of "other" websites where posters appear to either love or hate him for reasons I am not entirely sure of ?

It's not intended to trigger a discussion concerning Lewis as a person but as a part of Mercedes F1 team, if it appeared that way then I apologise ..

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It's not intended to trigger a discussion concerning Lewis as a person but as a part of Mercedes F1 team, if it appeared that way then I apologise ..

To be clear, my comment a few posts above was a friendly poke. It seems this thread and the thread about Niko has generated a lot of "Lewis" talk.



Richard

[JABWOA]

Originally Posted by bella

it's funny you ask whether he's up to rosberg standards - wasn't there a similar apathy about rosberg when he left williams for mercedes?

Quite true. He and Weber were almost equals (Weber much better when he was on it but that was too few and far between) while Nico was more consistent. Both were good drivers who deserved wins in F1 but championship material? Nico proved me wrong. Lewis is another level again, but can be distracted with mind games which Nico did well in 2014. 2015 Lewis had no personal distractions (Nicole finally gone nor fallout with his Dad) and romped to the Championship. 2016 the unsettled mind was back (conspiracy theories etc.)

Much like Button in '09 - had the choice equipment and got the job done and deserved the silverware. Each time one other person had the same equipment and didn't get the job done.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

To be clear, my comment a few posts above was a friendly poke. It seems this thread and the thread about Niko has generated a lot of "Lewis" talk.



Richard

Cheers Richard no worries 😊

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

Quite true. He and Weber were almost equals (Weber much better when he was on it but that was too few and far between) while Nico was more consistent. Both were good drivers who deserved wins in F1 but championship material? Nico proved me wrong. Lewis is another level again, but can be distracted with mind games which Nico did well in 2014. 2015 Lewis had no personal distractions (Nicole finally gone nor fallout with his Dad) and romped to the Championship. 2016 the unsettled mind was back (conspiracy theories etc.)

Much like Button in '09 - had the choice equipment and got the job done and deserved the silverware. Each time one other person had the same equipment and didn't get the job done.

Well Webber certainly proved he was capable in 2010 even if he blew it in Korea?

I don't wish to stay too far off topic but normally when a better than average driver gets their hands on a truly top line car they are able to make the most of it because that's all they've lived for up to that point in their career - the chance to achieve their ambition - but occasionally there are exceptions but that is normally down to the mental side, as you've suggested, or a lack of comms between driver and management etc etc.

[S griffin]

Webber came close to doing a Rosberg in 2010, i.e. taking advantages of his teammates slip ups and mechanical failure, to take the title in the best car. But for that crash in Korea...

[djinvicta]

Thinking on..maybe Bottas is a dark horse. Perhaps he may push Lewis. With the right machinery, he may surprise...but I'm still waiting for the "surprise" announcement at Merc...who knows...but Bottas may kick ass

[JABWOA]

2010 also had 5 drivers in the hunt 2 rounds to go and 4 at the last race, so was the most even battle over the last decade.

Webber impressed me, especially his tenacity.
Nico impressed me towards the end, for his resilience.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

Thinking on..maybe Bottas is a dark horse. Perhaps he may push Lewis. With the right machinery, he may surprise...but I'm still waiting for the "surprise" announcement at Merc...who knows...but Bottas may kick ass

I think Bottas to Mercedes give us all a chance to gauge a number of things.
1. How good a driver Bottas is. With all due respect to Massa, being teamed with Hamilton puts him up against a more 'known' benchmark.
2. How good Massa really is. If Bottas creams Hamilton in the Mercedes, well Massa wasn't that far behind in equal machinery so...
3. How good the Mercedes is. If Hamilton & Bottas are as dominant as Hamilton and Rosberg were last season, then it must be the car.
4. Finally how good/bad the Williams chassis is. If Bottas can dominate with Hamilton, but using the same engine he used last year, then the Williams car must have serious shortcomings.
This, and the new rules should (hopefully) give us all something to look forward to once things start getting underway...

[BSchneiderFan]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hamilton deserves respect for not being afraid to race against his team mates on equal terms. He doesn't the insecurity of Schumi

This is off-topic, but it's an argument that is often trotted out. Whom did Schumacher ever veto as a team-mate? I don't know of anyone. Whereas Senna did nix Derek Warwick at Lotus.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I don't quite understand where a lot of the negativity regarding Bottas comes from. He seems like a pretty good driver to me. Certainly absolutely ideal for the slot given the sudden nature of gap to fill.

Is he Nico standard? Good easily be. If so, then absolutely more than adequate. If he was a shade worse it could arguably be preferable for Mercedes.

I certainly haven't seen anything to make me think he will not be at least adequate.

Spot on in my book, my personal view is that he'll spring a few surprises.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

This is off-topic, but it's an argument that is often trotted out. Whom did Schumacher ever veto as a team-mate? I don't know of anyone. Whereas Senna did nix Derek Warwick at Lotus.

But not because he feared Warwick......

[Adam43]

Quite. Also Schumacher couldn't take that risk at Ferrari. Ferrari was back then, and is again, a team that fails with politics inside it. He, although probably more Todt, removed that whenever they could and then they dominated. If the competition was see who could beat the best team mate then I'm sure Schumacher would have happily had someone better than Irvine. However the competition is to see who can beat all other cars and drivers. For that, with a Ferrari team that can get distracted, it is good to remove a variable and Todt knew it. But it makes TGF weak if you want to see it that way.

On the other hand the main person who bigs up the Hamilton because he will race anyone is, er, Hamilton.

So there we go. We can look down on Schumacher and Hamilton for opposite things! Internet gold.

[S griffin]

Even Del Boy could see the logic in Senna's veto. Senna in fact complemented Del Boy in saying that he was too good to be run as a No 2 and having two equal No 1 cars would compromise the resources towards the car as it had done with him and de Angelis in 85. It's not like Senna didn't go against Prost in the same team and also was prepared to go against Piquet in 84 at Brabham, but Piquet vetoed it

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

This is off-topic, but it's an argument that is often trotted out. Whom did Schumacher ever veto as a team-mate? I don't know of anyone. Whereas Senna did nix Derek Warwick at Lotus.

I believe Hakkinen was always a 'no' and Coulthard got suggested for the no2 role a couple of times but it never materialised.

To be fair I think there was a case of Schu and the team not wanting anyone to upset the operation the way it worked and also a case of other drivers avoiding going there because they knew damn well they would not get equal no 1 status and potentially damaged egos!

What Ferrari essentially did was take the Benetton Schumacher winning model which worked very well as a one car operation and throw more resources at it so that the no2 car was much more useful.

[F1Guy]

Clair Williams has just basically confirmed Bottas has left Williams.

Clair Williams: “I suppose as soon as Nico made his announcement, I knew the call was going to come from Toto.

“I know that he’s admired Valtteri – many people do admire Valtteri’s talent.

“For us, you don’t want to stand in the way of a driver who has the opportunity to go and race finally in a car that’s winning races, it’s winning world championships.”


Where Bottas is moving to, no one knows!