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21 Mar 2017, 03:35 (Ref:3720346) | #501 | ||
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And I think that it's unfair to expect every endurance race (ie, a race longer than 1000km/6 hours) to have cars seconds apart. That's been rare even in the WEC to see the first two finishers much less than 20-30 seconds apart. The close finishes at Fuji in 2012, Silverstone '13, and Fuji '16 are IMO the exceptions that prove the rule. Most WEC races have had winning margins of more than 30 seconds, sometimes it was in terms of laps in the 6 hour races.
Yeah, there were several times in the Audi era where the winning margin was less than 20 seconds, but with the exception of 1999, it was Audi vs Audi. I don't see that much difference. If Gibson and Cosworth had their electrical bits sorted, Rebellion might have challenged. So could ESM if they got the Nissan deal up and running when Cadillac did. |
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21 Mar 2017, 03:49 (Ref:3720349) | #502 | |||
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lol I was thinking the same thing!! i bet if Toyota wips on Porsche the first few races in wec they will be the best races ever..... whiners will be whiners,and haters will always hate. Yall can go back and watch Sebring 2013 when both audis dominated the race and ran to team orders,or 2010 when Audi didn't run at all and Peugeot ran a 12 hour test session in the middle of an alms race.or if you want close races the. You can go back and watch Sebring 2014 and 15 FCY fests. |
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21 Mar 2017, 03:50 (Ref:3720350) | #503 | ||
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It's official, most people here just want to complain about IMSA. Hopefully they're go away once the WEC season starts and leave the people that actually enjoy this stuff alone.
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21 Mar 2017, 03:52 (Ref:3720351) | #504 | |||
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RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
21 Mar 2017, 04:19 (Ref:3720352) | #505 | |
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I think we all have a little wishful thinking and hope that the powers that be read places like this to gauge the mood of the fans. I've seen posts comment on how maybe, just maybe, they do.
Well, form the last few years, the majority has been complaining about quick draw cautions. Especially late in races. Fears of NASCAR turning sports car racing into another of their type of entertainment package. Starting sometime last year, it looked as though an effort was being made to not throw cautions. In fact, there's been times I've been watching a car sit stranded for seemingly minutes as cars fly past them while race control waits it out to see if they'll get going and I'll hold my breath as a car goes by and wonder if maybe a caution is needed.... Before they have thrown it. They easily and rightly could have thrown one at Daytona when the bmw was stranded in the fast lane on pit road and crew members had to go retrieve it. But they didn't. We just had a 12 hour race with only 6 cautions and none that were even close to questionable. It seems if our wishful thinking were true, our complaints were heard. Now, we get an actual endurance race and it's swinging the other way and people are complainig they didn't get their photo finish. If, and I know it's wishful thinking, but if they do track places like this, they would get the idea that they now need more manufacturing of finishes. More yellows to bunch it up. Maybe lucky dog so the jdc and 31 axr could have gotten their laps back and made a more "exciting" finish. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it. Let's not mess with a good thing. Atherton saved his one time to get it right for now, apparently, and I want to see this continue on this path. |
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21 Mar 2017, 06:20 (Ref:3720357) | #506 | |||||
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Btw, I didn't like GA. Too spec for me. ALMS and ILMC were my choice. Even they had boring prototype races. Just so you know I am not biased towards the European style of endurance. |
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21 Mar 2017, 11:10 (Ref:3720389) | #507 | |||
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21 Mar 2017, 12:51 (Ref:3720402) | #508 | ||
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Additionally, I would like to point out that the first hour had 8-9 cars running extremely competitively through the first couple rounds of pit stops. Remember Rebellion was leading, PR1 and ESM were right on the tail of the Action Express cars and WTR couldn't was stuck in 6th until after the first stop.
Over the course of the race, the better preparation, professionalism and consistency of the Cadillacs won out. The only other prototype to run trouble free was JDC which no one would argue is the most experienced in terms of top level racing nor the top of the driver talent level (no offense, they ran an awesome race.) The Cadillacs were overall quickest on pace and most reliable. But had ESM or Rebellion run reliably they would have competed. That's all we can ask for. Let the cars develop and get rid of teething issues and I think we'll see an extremely competitive class in the next year or two. |
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21 Mar 2017, 16:10 (Ref:3720434) | #509 | |||||
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Just like there was no competition in GTLM, right? After all, the Corvette led the final 41 laps. Quote:
Some cars are fast but break. Some simply aren't fast. Some are fast, break, get fixed, and come back to do really well. teams have to get everything right, And get really lucky to win. I have watched Serena Williams win countless two-set titles where here opponent won maybe three games. No one ever said she should have to wear leg weights or a training mask while playing. You build the best car you can, you run it as hard as you can, you fix it if you can. Its seems TF110, that you want both LMP1 and ... spec racing. Quote:
People here who did enjoy the race are trying to help you expand your boundaries so that you might see the good that we saw. if being disappointed suits you better, cry away. But hey ... life is short, and if we really go back and watch those old races ... they were pretty much the same as today's races. Some close finishes, some runaways, some races where people knew who was going to win after ten laps. Nostalgia tells us the past was always better. facts show us that not too much has changed ... but some of us are so polluted with nostalgia that we can no longer appreciate our passing lives. I have been on these boards or the old SPEED boards or the ALMS boards by Bear for a Looong time. And something which has never changed was the huge proportion of people who hated whatever the current racing series was or were .... always saying how the past was better. What's funny is the "past" we are extolling now is the "past" we were all p1$$ing on when it was the present. I hope it is okay that we have opinions about your opinions. By the way, you must Hate Toyota's LMP1 program---only one one race all season. Not even close to the Porsches and Audis. Pretty much went into most races knowing they would be behind the Germans. |
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21 Mar 2017, 17:13 (Ref:3720448) | #510 | ||
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BoP was right for this race. The best cars crewed by the best teams came out on top. -Yes agreed. Cadillacs are the best right now and they should dominate. As for what endurance racing is supposed to be ... this was it. - Just about, but still SRO and WEC don't throw safety cars for simple car stalls. Some cars set up for the heat, and led all day (Ford.) Some cars set up for the cooler weather, and came back in the dark. -That's for sure. Ford controlled the day, Porsche the sunset, Corvette in the dark. Guess who won! Endurance racing is about lasting, adapting, overcoming, and making sure you have the best car and crew -Yes for sure. There was actually some attrition in DPI, the other categories not the case. I'm surprised LMPC cars hung in there. The top two beat the GTLM winners |
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21 Mar 2017, 17:16 (Ref:3720450) | #511 | ||
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Its almost to the point where I really like endurance racing right now. The GT classes should be 24/12 hour all out sprint races and that is what it is. I personally would like to see the prototype class get back to the mechanical endurance test that it used to be where attrition rates were real high. Such as was the case up to about 2004. We just about get that now with the exception of the Cadillac DPI's which seem to have take the mantle from the Corvette DP of being bullet proof and unbreakable. |
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21 Mar 2017, 17:31 (Ref:3720452) | #512 | |||
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Also, track access for safety vehicles or snatch tractors (great term BTW) at Sebring and many US circuits are tight and precarious, but I don't know enough about the procedures of getting a car off the track, where that can be done and how it can be done safely. They're annoying but if a FCY can prevent bodily harm, hard for me to argue against them. |
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21 Mar 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3720454) | #513 | ||||||||
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No, I just want a close race up front between two or more different cars, not the same whitewash. Seemingly that's not allowed here. Quote:
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I hope it's ok to have opinions in general and not be a labeled fanboy of one thing or another just because I didn't find much enjoyment in a particular class. That's fine, they did great for a new car and were in contention for the win at plenty of other rounds, particularly Le Mans. The best part about it is there was two others competing with eachother and, get this, two other classes with tight racing! It must be such a new concept to like one thing about a race and not like another. |
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21 Mar 2017, 21:02 (Ref:3720484) | #514 | ||||
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
21 Mar 2017, 22:36 (Ref:3720492) | #515 | ||
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As for Grand Am, it was too spec in the DP class (I already said that) and had some questionable manufactured finishes. Not to mention the looks of the cars was a big turn off. Also, you can stop with the 'good race' jabs. We don't have like opinions then oh well. If someone calls into question your opinion you elaborate the same way I am. You don't pretend to have an open mind to what someone else thinks then lambast them for not feeling the same way. What I see is that that's happening in this thread to anyone who doesn't praise dpi's "good race" |
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22 Mar 2017, 01:01 (Ref:3720510) | #516 | |||||
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And I get that some didn't like DPs. I skimmed the highlights of disdain for a little more than a decade.... Quote:
That's okay. You don't have to like anything about imsa p cars or races. I might get a little worried if you did. I do however agree that your general sentiment is that the rest of the field need to get their collective crap together or its going to be a Caddy run away all season, which may not be so fun and seems to be the biggest hold up with most naysayers atm. |
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
22 Mar 2017, 02:44 (Ref:3720522) | #517 | |
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American FCYs are pretty hypocritical and ineffective in safety terms. They sit there staring at a car until the yellow light goes on at which point they instantly jump out on the track in complete disregard of cars blasting past to catch the pace car at the exact same speed they were doing under local yellow. It's 100% insurance nonsense.
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22 Mar 2017, 05:41 (Ref:3720544) | #518 | |||
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22 Mar 2017, 05:48 (Ref:3720545) | #519 | ||
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I know there is disagreement over BoP, which I understand, but as far as a spectacle is concerned, I think we have a hit on our hands folks. The variety of sights and sounds is truly enthralling. Please do yourself a favor and make it to an IMSA race this year if you can. I got goosebumps during the parade laps for the first time in many years. Despite the reliability right now, dat Gibson V8... you WEC fans are in for a treat too.
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22 Mar 2017, 06:18 (Ref:3720551) | #520 | ||||
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That's basically my point. That's about the only reason why it wasn't that great of a race (up front) to me. Congrats to Cadillac, but I would have thought some other teams were going to have their sh-- together by now! Maybe the Daytona turnaround was too short? |
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22 Mar 2017, 09:50 (Ref:3720595) | #521 | ||
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Pity we can't see another team run a Mazda so we could find out how much of their underperformance is the car and how much is Speedsource
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22 Mar 2017, 11:06 (Ref:3720619) | #522 | |
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There is that aspect to it too. Remember Dyson managed to take a working chassis and engine and combine them into something that spent more time on fire than anything else.
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22 Mar 2017, 11:13 (Ref:3720621) | #523 | ||||||
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We've cleared up the prototype / overall race posts ago. You seem to want to keep beating that drum like it's a point. Quote:
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It's a BoP series so they'll never run "free", but glad you you like something about them. Quote:
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22 Mar 2017, 11:20 (Ref:3720623) | #524 | ||||
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They do jump out before the entire field is picked up by the SC, but these conditions are the same as a local yellow. No passing "reduce speed". No system is perfect and I'd like to see some changes, but prefer experts in the field making decisions what's safe for people they work with. |
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
22 Mar 2017, 14:16 (Ref:3720653) | #525 | ||
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