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12 Jul 2016, 19:55 (Ref:3658586) | #501 | ||
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Strange that Audi Sport, who granted have basically a permanent seat on the WEC's Endurance Committee but only field LMP1 teams, are opposed to a WEC GTE world championship within the WEC, when LMP1 already have their own world championship for both overall and private teams.
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12 Jul 2016, 20:21 (Ref:3658594) | #502 | |
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That because the current solution works for Audi. They're winning or at least in running to win all these famous GT only races with their gt3 machine. They don't want to waste more money to create a GT+ car, which will most likely involve way more of a factory effort. They would rather have a cheaper customer program.
GT+ and with the FIA would most likely end the Pro-Am rules. My guess anyway. |
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12 Jul 2016, 20:56 (Ref:3658599) | #503 | |||
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The more interesting issue is what happens to the ELMS then: Does it keep its GT class as all-pro GT+, go (back) to a GT3 pro-am class, or drop GT altogether. Any of those three paths dramatically alters the nature of ELMS. If the WEC isn’t the GT World Championship, then things can get very "interesting." In a world fun of great races open to GT3 cars, would a world championship participate in those existing races? What about great existing races that GT+ cars aren’t likely to win overall (Le Mans, Daytona, Sebring, PLM etc.)? Or does such a championship skip existing races to run its own events? (Can’t have some local taking out the world championship leader, after all.) Is this something run by SRO to essentially compete with the ACO and IMSA? Is it something that’s used by the ACO to compete or at least limit the growth of SRO? Or would a GT world championship be something that’s competing against SRO, the ACO, and IMSA? |
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12 Jul 2016, 21:14 (Ref:3658602) | #504 | ||
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If I was Ratel I'd want to keep GT3 away from this. It's essentially trying to pull what is currently GT3 away from majority SRO spheres to that of the FIA Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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12 Jul 2016, 21:56 (Ref:3658611) | #505 | ||
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Yet, as some have said, there wasn't this talk of all pro vs pro am when both classes of teams ran in GT2. We mostly got GTE Pro and GTE Am because the ACO killed off GT1 because of lack of factory interest with factory teams or customer teams, and the SRO GT1 cars could barely last a 1000km sprint race without mechanical problems, let alone a 24 hour race.
That, combined with the influx of gentleman drivers who wanted to race at LM the overall influx of GT2 teams, is how we got this. I think that the biggest irk that Audi has with the GTE rules vs GT3 is GTE's greater reliance on air restirctors, torque sensors and other BOP changes that are often in flux vs GT3 where each car is tested by a standard driver and the base for BOP is set that way. Also, GT3 cars can match GTE cars for performance (if allowed to) for less money. Also, Ratel didn't seem to have problems with the FIA as long as Max Mosley was propping up the SRO and until the ACO killed GT1 at Le Mans and Jean Todt sided with the ACO in creating the WEC. |
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12 Jul 2016, 22:01 (Ref:3658612) | #506 | ||
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I think most constructors in GT3 wants to keep GT3 a customer sport. It's money in the pocket for them.
Thing is, Ratel wants a world championship aswell, but I do sincerely belive that he wants to run GT3 machinery in a WC. Honestly, if they want to see this through, they need to step back and look at this with new eyes. Just setting up a championship and trophy won't work financially. |
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12 Jul 2016, 22:30 (Ref:3658616) | #507 | |
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So you want to win the big GT races and championships with a $500,000 to $600,000 car?
Or with a million dollar one. And what other racing programs are you willing to sacrifices if you choose GT+? Can you even support both a factory and a customer program at the same time? |
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12 Jul 2016, 22:40 (Ref:3658619) | #508 | ||
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For the classes at Le Mans and WEC, it should be LMP1, LMP2, GT+ and GT with GT have the same driver ranking rules that GTE AM has.
I really wish convergence happens this time round and it seems like it will with the major issues of it not happening last time not as big a factor now. However if all these GT manufactures want to turn up to Le Mans then I'm not sure how they can all be accommodated on the entry list! |
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12 Jul 2016, 23:01 (Ref:3658625) | #509 | |||
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Could Le Mans function as both a round of both a world prototype endurance racing championship (WEC with just prototypes) and a GT+ world championship? Probably not, unless the ACO added another 10 or 15 garages. Taking GT cars out of the WEC and replacing them with a bunch of LMP3s doesn't exactly increase the appeal of the WEC. Most people would rather watch some Ferraris, Ford GT, Corvettes, Aston-Martin, and Porsche 911s as compared a horde of Ligier LMP3s. Such a change would also take a lot of factory money out of the series. Possibilities I see: 1. The WEC also becomes the GT world championship with very likely just LMP1/LMP2/GT+ classes (no pro-am GT class). 2. A separate GT world championship is set up, scope and leadership TBD. The WEC stays roughly the same though — it still might lose its GTE-Am category — with a trophy for endurance GT driving. The way the GT world championship is structured is such that it isn't entirely about long races, so that there's still some value in the WEC for GT cars. Last edited by TheMightyM; 12 Jul 2016 at 23:14. |
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12 Jul 2016, 23:10 (Ref:3658626) | #510 | |||
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13 Jul 2016, 00:45 (Ref:3658633) | #511 | ||
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We currently have these major GT competitions:
World Endurance Championship European Le Mans Series Blancpain GT Series IMSA Championship 24h Nürburgring, 24h Dubai, 12h Bathurst, etc. GT3 is a fine ruleset, as can be seen with large grids in several championships. But some manufacturers want to develop even more radical cars, based on GT3 to reduce costs but with more freedoms. How many teams can afford them? I think very few privateers can, and there's only so many manufacturers. And the point of factory teams is to race each other, so only a very small number of competitions must allow them. The problem with the World Endurance Championship is that the prototype classes get more coverage. It's hard to follow four classes at the same time, and the broadcasters focus on LMP1. GT manufacturers want more exposure. Another option is having a proper FIA GT World Championship. But which races should be included? 24h races, 6h races, sprint races? And how many entries would it have? |
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13 Jul 2016, 02:38 (Ref:3658642) | #512 | |
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We're making a assumption that the makes want to have a customer and/or a factory effort and therefore more cars for both GTE and GT3.
Really though the ball is in the ACO court. They should just dump GTE for GT3. |
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13 Jul 2016, 02:43 (Ref:3658643) | #513 | |||
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Pretty much. There is no room in this world for an all pro GT3 World Championship. I believe Ratel has learnt his mistakes from 2010-2011. The Intercontinental Challenge is the best way to go about a GT3 World Championship using the best teams in every region instead of the expense of teams trotting the globe. |
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13 Jul 2016, 05:37 (Ref:3658646) | #514 | |
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No way will the WEC get rid of the GTs. Think about it, they would lose Ferrari, Porsche, AM, Ford and even Corvette and replace them with... a bunch of Ligiers. From the WEC's point of view that would seem rather stupid. They have a fairly good package now, don't mess with it.
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13 Jul 2016, 09:02 (Ref:3658659) | #515 | |
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Making another GT World Championship is not only redundant since there's Blancpain, but it won't be successful.
Nevertheless, I want the GT convergence to happen. |
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13 Jul 2016, 13:43 (Ref:3658677) | #516 | |
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FIA/ACO to create universal GT class
The more I think about it the more I see convergence as pointless, same for the proposed GT world championship.
GT3 is on fire right now, a brilliant, easily transferable, customer and Am friendly format. The intercontinental GT challenge is essentially a World Cup for GT3 and I'd like to see that grow to a few more stand it races. I don't see how putting what would essentially be GT3 and GTE in a race alone together would be good racing. GTE/LM aren't really much quicker than GT3 in the straights, they often muddle each other up in IMSA. (I actually like GTLM and GTD combo in IMSA but as part of the 4 class system) If anything, a GT World Cup should be based on GT3 and GT4 in my opinion, (maybe GT Cuptoo) two clearly different level cars, that work to a great customer platform. Oh wait, that's the intercontinental GT Challenge... What does adding GTE bring? It stops Am drivers being in the top class, or at least in the same machinery as full pro lineups. Not only does fully pro GTE mess with the positioning of Am drivers in GT only racing, it also brings a huge increase in expense due to bigger factory support. So in my opinion: FIA WEC remains as is with GTE. Intercontinetal GT Challenge takes the realm of GT World Cup, expands to 6-8 races a year, and is available to GT3, GT Cup, and GT4. Allowing Pro, Pro Am and Am only sub classes, same formula as works so well in Blancpain Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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9 Nov 2016, 21:28 (Ref:3686843) | #517 | ||
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ACO Ask Again for World GT Championship Status.
Here maybe we can know if the FIA wants to create their own GT World Championship or not. ACO should be worry about improving the BOP that this year was a disaster. http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/1...ip-status.html |
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13 Nov 2016, 13:15 (Ref:3687604) | #518 | ||
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More about World GT championship
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/cou...e-pour-la-fia/ |
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17 Aug 2020, 17:17 (Ref:3996032) | #519 | ||
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It's been a bit quiet on the GT convergence front. With prototype convergence apparently worked out, maybe this is the next inevitable step.
Personally, I would be in favour of it. GTE is a BoP (plus success ballast in ELMS!) formula anyway. GT3 is slower than GTE but LMH/LMDh and LMP2 will be slowing down too. And the dwindling amount of variety in ACO racing is starting to get a bit depressing. https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/d...e-convergence/ |
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17 Aug 2020, 17:40 (Ref:3996036) | #520 | ||
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17 Aug 2020, 18:21 (Ref:3996043) | #521 | ||
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17 Aug 2020, 18:39 (Ref:3996045) | #522 | ||
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during 2019 season, at spa best WEC gte qualified in high 2.12, best gt-open gt3 qualified in high 2.15. Now consider that BES trackA and gt-open bop are not that different; despite this, 2019 BES spa 24H superpole was only in 2.18.6. Michelin gt-open customers compound tyres are about 3s worth alone... think about if gt-open gt3 cars were a bit lighter and equipped with confidential michelin, likely were able to run in low 2.13. GT3/GTE performance windows we see it's just what bop decides to be. |
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18 Aug 2020, 00:37 (Ref:3996104) | #523 | |
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18 Aug 2020, 06:58 (Ref:3996135) | #524 | ||
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Corvette comment.
https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/c...ly-large-task/ Is the increased talk of convergence meant to get us used to the idea before it is announced, or is it just speculation for the sake of it? You can't deny that 6 cars in GTE Pro and 6 cars in GTLM (4 next year, or maybe 2) doesn't look great. |
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18 Aug 2020, 09:33 (Ref:3996162) | #525 | ||
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Anyway agree with them, would be required a lot of aero work for a new gt3like splitter-diffuser and much more work for suspensions since a gt3 version will be in the range of 1300kg for sure and will get a higher mandatory ride height as well. Not to mention a new or updated ECU to add abs and all other electronic stuff allowed in gt3. |
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