|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
15 Mar 2018, 16:55 (Ref:3808188) | #501 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,746
|
So far so good. The opening round at St. Pete, which can be the least exciting race on the calendar, was above average for once. Obviously one race a season does not make but the general consensus amongst the drivers, during pre-season testing and now post race, is it works well. The next round is Phoenix, an oval.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
15 Mar 2018, 17:47 (Ref:3808198) | #502 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,106
|
Quote:
It should be obvious from the entirety of my posts that I am for competition. Don't mistake "level playing field" for "spec series". I mention a spec series as you used the identical robots analogy. There has to be some happy medium between full spec series and "We all live on the same planet, so aren't we all equal?" (basically a bootstrap argument). You don't like outcome to be generated by chance alone. Do you like outcome that is pretty much defined by budget? I know that is not 100% accurate. Money does not always equal success, but it is a requirement for success at the moment. My point of level playing field is... * How the sport is organized. Such as... Why does Ferrari have a veto right? And spare me the commentary about how much Ferrari brings to the sport, etc. If the sport can't work on it's own and needs to be propped up by Ferrari... then please just let it die. * How revenue is shared. In short, stop having favorite children that you lavish gifts upon and then at the same time wonder why the less favorite children do so poorly. People should read up on the idea of the bootstrap fallacy. * How resources can be reasonably limited. Is this motor sports, or a competition as to who can generate the most money? To me, it seems to be about money and less about competition on track. For me the competition would be about how to intelligently use resources and less about who has the most resources. I think everyone likes to talk about how Force India seems to punch above their weight. What they really are saying is they are more successful than their budget should allow. Imagine if everyone was running the same budget. Why do we think everyone would perform the same? Going back to your 20 robot example. Imagine you didn't give each team the same robot, but gave each team the same amount of raw material and said "build a robot". Would they end up identical? Might some be better than others? Isn't Force India the perfect example of how this could work and that there is still room for creativity, skill and execution as a way to stand out in a competitive environment? Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
15 Mar 2018, 23:10 (Ref:3808252) | #503 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,725
|
[QUOTE=Richard Casto;3808198]
My point of level playing field is... * How the sport is organized. Such as... Why does Ferrari have a veto right? And spare me the commentary about how much Ferrari brings to the sport, etc. If the sport can't work on it's own and needs to be propped up by Ferrari... then please just let it die. * How revenue is shared. In short, stop having favorite children that you lavish gifts upon and then at the same time wonder why the less favorite children do so poorly. People should read up on the idea of the bootstrap fallacy. * How resources can be reasonably limited. Is this motor sports, or a competition as to who can generate the most money? To me, it seems to be about money and less about competition on track./QUOTE] Nail on Head Richard *Liberty and FIA have to renegotiate the Concorde to remove special privileges enjoyed by some. Clean the stables of the mrd left by Bernie. *Reward the teams for what they do, not who they are. Distribute funds on the basis of finish of last season in Constructors Championship with a rolling fund to reward teams in season by race results to keep rewards that help competition to the end of season. *Homologate both aero and engine specs at event 1 of the year with re homologation at races 5, 10 and 15 to allow new developments to be incorporated. If Liberty want to own an asset with a long term future, the terams want to stay in business and FIA want continuing income they all should cooperate. |
||
__________________
Geting old is mandatory, acting old is optional. |
16 Mar 2018, 07:19 (Ref:3808285) | #504 | ||
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
|
Liberty negotiate with Ferrari......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i96VS_z8y7g
|
||
|
16 Mar 2018, 08:18 (Ref:3808292) | #505 | ||||||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,485
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Would you be happy as a Mercedes, Red Bull or Ferrari fan if your team was being regularly beaten by Haas because they had been given a measure to 'level the playing field'? Quote:
Resource was not the only factor in their successes, but was a contributing factor. I think a good example recently was Leicester winning the Premier League - a team with less resource than others, but through a combination of other factors were able to achieve success. For this to become a regular, long-term situation though, resource is required for sustainment. I'm not saying football is a perfect example, but that is a sport where money can buy some success - but is not a guarantee. Ask most football fans what they want from their club, and the response would quite often be - more investment in the team, sign expensive players. Yet in F1, we seem to be against teams being able to spend more? Top level sport in 2018 sees massive sums of money spent, that is just the way of the world. So why aren't Ferrari and Red Bull fans asking 'their' team to spend more to keep up with Mercedes? |
||||||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
16 Mar 2018, 09:11 (Ref:3808300) | #506 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
Wonder if any tentenths.com F1 forum members are featured in this add?
Us being Formula 1 superfans and all... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtqq_KbfUx0 |
||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
16 Mar 2018, 14:48 (Ref:3808346) | #507 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,951
|
Quote:
likewise i think i would appreciate a Haas win more (under the level playing field scenario) as i would see that win as more merit based as opposed to just a pure chance/fluke (which is how i would view it if they won under the current regime). i suppose i liken this to the use of PEDs...its not so much their use that bothers me (because anyone can use them) as much as it is their use by those that have money because it is money that truly unlocks the power of PEDs. rather money allows for the use of better PEDs, money allows for better doctors/laboratories to monitor their usage, provde for clean results, bribe all the right people. adding money creates an advantage that cannot be overcome imo. in F1 thats what money does. it provides for better facilities, more staff, better materials, better build quality etc etc. access to money is the underlying multiplier and the more you have the greater your advantage. then you add in special payments and the cycle continues and the divide grows. the technology component of F1 makes this a hard one to compare against other sports mind you. in soccer/football/baseball/basketball/hockey more money will allow you to build a better team, pay more for top players and i am ok with that because those sports also limit the number players on the roster. also there is a growing movement in some sports towards the analytics approach combined with salary caps which is forcing teams to fundamentally change how teams go about building their rosters and it does so in a way the dosent necessarily require a financial advantage...if anything it punishes those that overspend on players. anyways, along those lines, i guess if i could make one immediate rule change i would say that there should be limits to the size of staff a team can have. i dont have the numbers handy but the number of technical staff that Merc employ is ridiculous. sure i am advocating that many people should lose their job but if one wants to see more competition then by reducing staff size would mean the cream of the crop would be the ones who make the cut. long story short, i wont speak directly to Richards points (although i do agree with all of them) but i do sincerely believe there is a way to level the playing field while dramatically improving the level of true competition we all essentially want to see play out on track. Last edited by chillibowl; 16 Mar 2018 at 14:55. Reason: cleaned it up a bit |
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
16 Mar 2018, 14:49 (Ref:3808348) | #508 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,951
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
16 Mar 2018, 15:09 (Ref:3808356) | #509 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
|
That advert really was something to stir the blood
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
16 Mar 2018, 17:52 (Ref:3808398) | #510 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 913
|
Well edited F1 clips look amazing......it's the 99% of dross that goes with it that nobody wants to watch.
|
||
|
16 Mar 2018, 18:45 (Ref:3808415) | #511 | |||||||||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,106
|
Quote:
1. Are teams investing because money = performance? 2. Why would teams invest something less than the top teams if they feel there is little chance for success? Both IMHO are true. And both speak to the decline of top series that are budget driven. Who in their right mind would create a new F1 team today unless they could outspend the top players and also with realization that given the financial kickbacks, some of those top players would NOT need to spend as much (out of pocket) as you would? F1 to a new team makes little logical sense (given the financial scenarios). Is that not an indication of a problem? Also... I would like to think that teams think they can win on skill vs. having to rely upon deep pockets Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
First, teams can only have so many players on the field at any one time. Second, players are generally biologically limited at some maximum performance level (ignoring the issue of performance enhancing drugs). So no matter how much money you spend you can only put X number of humans on the field. So when it's all said and done, you can have a quality team come from out of nowhere and have them succeed. Imagine if Soccer rules worked differently. That the amount of money you spent allows you to put more players on the field. Things would not seem particularly fair at that point would it? What is deceptive about F1 is that externally they look the same (it's just one car and one driver), but under the skin is evidence of the disparity of resources. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
McLaren recently tried this by paying Honda a massive amount of money so McLaren would no longer be a "customer" team. Given that it failed also proves my point that even if you magically gave each team the same amount of money, someone is going to do a better job at producing a total solution. And that hopefully the disparity between teams may not be so huge that racing might actually become... broadly competitive? THAT is the version of F1 I would like to see. Richard |
|||||||||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
16 Mar 2018, 19:26 (Ref:3808418) | #512 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,746
|
I also liked the racing clips but the people in the wind tunnel didn't do it for me. I think clips of the drivers, interspersed with the racing clips, would have worked better.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
17 Mar 2018, 00:41 (Ref:3808453) | #513 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,406
|
|||
__________________
When did I do dangerous driving??? |
18 Mar 2018, 18:41 (Ref:3808930) | #514 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 913
|
If anyone wants to see what F1 could be.......just watch today's first MotoGP of the season from Qatar. MotoGP goes from strength to strength.....the perfect alternative for disillusioned F1 fans looking for a new home.
In addition, MotoGP also contains the solutions to F1's problems....Concessions! To help teams/manufacturers who are not fully competitive, they give them a number of rule breaks designed to help them get on the pace as soon as possible.Concessions include more testing,increased engine allocation,on-going freedom to develop engines, increased fuel allowance, total freedom of tyre use,development of electronic systems etc. Once a team/manufacturer are competitive all the concessions cease.This approach levels the playing field quickly and the entire sport benefits.Imagine where Renault and Honda could be today if they'd had these concessions from day one.Mercedes entered the hybrid era with a clear performance advantage and F1 rules don't allow for their competition to catch up fast.Great for Mercedes.....a disaster for everyone else........ie: Formula One ! If, after say a couple of seasons, your competitive position has gone into decline, you will qualify for concession status again...or, in the case of Mercedes,for the first time. Concession Status is results driven, the in depth quality of the product is enhanced, the entire F1 package is improved. If in any doubt, start watching MotoGP for proof. |
||
|
18 Mar 2018, 19:55 (Ref:3808949) | #515 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
the point of including non-f1 people in it is to demonstrate just that. introducing the fan as an important part of the new season of f1. it’s not meant to do anything for you, it’s just a message. but it’s an interesting thing to release next to the usual rah rah power, dynamics, grrr, drama tv channel f1 adverts.
|
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
18 Mar 2018, 20:10 (Ref:3808954) | #516 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,746
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
19 Mar 2018, 00:12 (Ref:3808995) | #517 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 1998
Posts: 16,760
|
felt like another statement of intent to me, rather than generating excitement. i’m not sure it was aimed at us old fogeys though, maybe they need to run a dual campaign for the majority of the people who actually (can afford to) watch f1 at the moment
|
|
__________________
devils advocate in-chief and professional arguer of both sides |
19 Mar 2018, 17:42 (Ref:3809157) | #518 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,746
|
They could run a dual campaign but watching F1 on Sky is too expensive afaic.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
19 Mar 2018, 18:55 (Ref:3809164) | #519 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,106
|
Is anyone going to create a race weekend thread? I would create one myself (and have in the past), but I don't have the time this week to do it the justice it deserves.
Richard |
|
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
19 Mar 2018, 19:34 (Ref:3809173) | #520 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,746
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
20 Mar 2018, 14:17 (Ref:3809378) | #521 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,951
|
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
20 Mar 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3809385) | #522 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,485
|
Isn't the race officially over 4 days? IIRC, there was some displeasure over this new arrangement a few months ago?
http://annefed.com/5-minutes-with-20...ooke-meredith/ 'I will be attending the four race days and also the launch party' 'The Formula 1® 2018 Rolex Australian Grand Prix will run from Thursday, March 22 to Sunday, March 25. For more information and to purchase tickets head to grandprix.com.au.' |
||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
20 Mar 2018, 14:53 (Ref:3809387) | #523 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,257
|
||
__________________
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes. |
20 Mar 2018, 14:53 (Ref:3809388) | #524 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,397
|
Quote:
Here is this years Thursday programme of events: THURSDAY Track Activity 2 Seater Demonstration Laps - 07:25 - 08:40 Formula One Paddock Club Pit Lane Walk - 09:00 - 10:20 Track Activity Historic Demonstration - 10:30 - 10:50 Track Activity Track Demonstration (GL) including Formula SAE - 11:00-11:40 Australian GT First Practice Session - 11:50 - 12:10 Porsche Carrera Cup First Practice Session - 12:20 - 12:40 V8 Supercars First Practice Session - 12:50 - 13:20 Air Display RAAF Roulettes (TBC) - 13:30 - 13:45 Formula One Paddock Club Pit Lane Walk - 13:35 - 14:05 Track Activity Historic Speed Comparison Practice Session - 13:45 - 14:05 Track Activity Stunt Display (TBC) - 14:15 - 14:35 Australian GT Qualifying Session - 14:45 - 15:05 Formula One Press Conference - Press Room - 15:00 V8 Supercars Second Practice Session - 15:15 - 15:45 Porsche Carrera Cup Qualifying Session - 15:55 - 16:15 Track Activity Historic Speed Comparison Demonstration 1 - 16:25 - 16:40 V8 Supercars Qualifying Session - 16:50 - 17:20 Porsche Carrera Cup First Race (TBC Laps) - 17:35 - 18:00 Australian GT First Race (TBC Laps) - 18:15 - 18:40 Formula One GP Advantage Pit Walk - 18:40 - 19:40 Other days schedules : https://www.grandprixevents.com/f1-r...-race-schedule |
|||
|
20 Mar 2018, 15:19 (Ref:3809391) | #525 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,485
|
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[Driver] 2018 F1 silly season. | F1Guy | Formula One | 1204 | 16 Sep 2018 23:44 |
2018 Historic race dates and club calendar thread | Mike Bell | Historic Racing Today | 189 | 27 Aug 2018 00:37 |
Ferrari F2008 launch tomorrow. Launch season begins! | Knowlesy | Formula One | 110 | 7 Feb 2008 14:13 |