Brabham BT36 - Page 21

allenbrown · 11 Mar 2009, 14:03 (Ref:2413661)

I give up

K.Wisskirchen · 11 Mar 2009, 14:13 (Ref:2413668)

BT36-20? That seems to look more like a joke than a fake.
Do you believe, both fotos shows the same "BT36"? I'm not sure. http://www.dream-cars.ch/nuerburgring03/geoffroy01.jpg
http://www.competauto.com/annonce-sport-auto-1672.htm

Klaus

driftwood · 11 Mar 2009, 15:16 (Ref:2413698)

i wonder if the car is 1 of the 2 UK race cars ran by the AA employees?
Allen really your no fun any more remind me not to have you on my tag wrestling team

Steve Wilkinson · 11 Mar 2009, 16:00 (Ref:2413722)

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftwood

Allen really your no fun any more remind me not to have you on my tag wrestling team

The last time I saw Tag Team Wrestling one of the blokes hit by a metal basin, if that was you Drifty it may explain a lot!

James Murray · 11 Mar 2009, 17:03 (Ref:2413748)

The AA team cars were a BT35 and a Merlyn Mk21. Frank Lyons has the BT35 now. I'm pretty sure its the same car in both those photos. He raced it reqularly about 5 years ago as it is in the first photo. He may have modified it slightly since but he hasnt used it for a while as he bought a 712 off Fredy and used that until very recently.

Has anyone dared contact him to find out history, AM number etc. My French speaking ability netted me an unclassified in my ALevels so I'm out.

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 17:16 (Ref:2413758)

Quote:

Originally Posted by allenbrown

It's something worthy of research to find out why a modified BT35 carries a plate saying BT36-20. As that research will likely involve talking to Christian Geoffroy, calling it a fake really doesn't help the process.

The one who should answer this question is not Christian Geoffroy but Thierry De Mortier whom he bought the car from.

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 17:18 (Ref:2413760)

Quote:

Originally Posted by K.Wisskirchen

BT36-20? That seems to look more like a joke than a fake.
Do you believe, both fotos shows the same "BT36"? I'm not sure. http://www.dream-cars.ch/nuerburgring03/geoffroy01.jpg
http://www.competauto.com/annonce-sport-auto-1672.htm

Klaus

same car but with different rear wing

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 17:20 (Ref:2413761)

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Murray

The AA team cars were a BT35 and a Merlyn Mk21. Frank Lyons has the BT35 now. I'm pretty sure its the same car in both those photos. He raced it reqularly about 5 years ago as it is in the first photo. He may have modified it slightly since but he hasnt used it for a while as he bought a 712 off Fredy and used that until very recently.

Has anyone dared contact him to find out history, AM number etc. My French speaking ability netted me an unclassified in my ALevels so I'm out.

The Geoffroy car has no connection whatsoever with the AA car (BT35-6)

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 17:22 (Ref:2413762)

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Murray

The AA team cars were a BT35 and a Merlyn Mk21. Frank Lyons has the BT35 now. I'm pretty sure its the same car in both those photos. He raced it reqularly about 5 years ago as it is in the first photo. He may have modified it slightly since but he hasnt used it for a while as he bought a 712 off Fredy and used that until very recently.

Has anyone dared contact him to find out history, AM number etc. My French speaking ability netted me an unclassified in my ALevels so I'm out.

I think AM number is AM71-20 subject to confirmation

K.Wisskirchen · 11 Mar 2009, 18:42 (Ref:2413797)

so what ever it is, if the AM-No. is 20, it maybe "can" be one of the first new cars who raced in 1971. (Bernd Terbeck raced the BT36-3/AM-17 at first with the two Rondel cars at 14.03.1971 after picking it up from Brabham Factory. Or is this too much simple?

Klaus

Bryan Miller · 11 Mar 2009, 21:29 (Ref:2413897)

PHDM is as always correct , the ex AA run car will be BT35-6 in my one only visit to the Autosport show a few years ago that car was on the AA stand and I noted the car was two chassis numbers away from my BT35-8 and was sold to Frank Lyons.

This car BT35-6 has NO connection with BT36-20 , do we know where BT35-20 is /was , having a guess that the number came from somewhere it may be that BT35-20 was the donor , failing that am I incorrect in believing at some stage cars were designated a number way out of production sequence by some ASNs when a known history could not be established.???

Bryan.

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 22:14 (Ref:2413930)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan Miller

PHDM is as always correct , the ex AA run car will be BT35-6 in my one only visit to the Autosport show a few years ago that car was on the AA stand and I noted the car was two chassis numbers away from my BT35-8 and was sold to Frank Lyons.

This car BT35-6 has NO connection with BT36-20 , do we know where BT35-20 is /was , having a guess that the number came from somewhere it may be that BT35-20 was the donor , failing that am I incorrect in believing at some stage cars were designated a number way out of production sequence by some ASNs when a known history could not be established.???

Bryan.

Bryan,

As we all know, it is unlikely that AM71-20 would be BT35-20 which was one of the Torsten Palm / Mennen F3 cars.

Looking through my notes, the number 20 was mentioned by Geoffroy as being stamped at the back of the chassis at the usual AM number place but I have not seen it.

phdm

K.Wisskirchen · 11 Mar 2009, 22:15 (Ref:2413931)

I'm sorry, but I have a question again.
Trying to learn something about BT35, I found some pictures from a very proud owner of his BT35-19. (phdm would say: "overstored"

)
http://www.mathewscollection.com/bra...abham_BT35.htm

I read that spaceframes of BT35 and BT36 are the same. Now I can see, that there is a different roll-hup. In between BT30 and BT36. Very round on the top, not with straight legs like BT36. Is this ok?

@phdm
at this car I found the same gearbox-crossmember like on my father's car. In professionell factory-style.

Looking back to Geoffroy's car, I see on the 2003 photo a "normal" BT36-roll hub. Are there different BT35 frames with different roll hubs?

Klaus

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 22:39 (Ref:2413947)

These are correct and original BT35 roll hoops :

http://www.f3history.co.uk/Manufactu.../brabham01.htm

http://www.f3history.co.uk/Manufactu.../brabham02.htm

http://www.f3history.co.uk/Manufactu.../brabham05.htm

Same as BT36's.

phdm · 11 Mar 2009, 22:48 (Ref:2413952)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Fellowes

well thats a surprise too, I meant to say how very exciting to 'find' another car, well done!

I already had it in my note book as BT36-14? unknown with
1973 Kuniomi Nagamatsu
1974 Tomohiko Tsusumi or Yashimasa Kawaguchi
1975 Kenzou Muromachi or Fumiyasu Satu
1976 Kenzou Muromachi with BDG
1977 Kenzou Muromachi

Very interesting indeed !

So Drifty, instead of talking chairs and tables, can your japanese fake or genuine friends come up with some more details about this car ?

Bryan Miller · 11 Mar 2009, 23:16 (Ref:2413971)

The major difference between a BT35 and a BT36 is the fuel tanks , on a BT36 they are fibreglass pods with the tanks inside held on by stainless steel straps , BT35 the tanks form part of the chassis and the chassis in the area of the tanks is very different .

Philippe , I was more thinking that chassis plated car BT35-20 was the donor , but if it is AM20 that could be the reason it has '' morphed'' into BT36-20 , and as we all know AM numbers don't co-relate to Chassis numbers.

Bryan.

Yes , the Matthews collection car is another totally overrestored car , since when did cars of that era come out of the factory with colour matching wheels to the stripes on the body.

K.Wisskirchen · 11 Mar 2009, 23:41 (Ref:2413986)

Thank's.

Philip, I can see a clear diffence between the white car and the show-car. The white car is like the mathew-car.

But what is with the legs of the mathew-car-hoop? They are not straight. With straight legs the bow is smaler. Like BT36.
I'm not sure, but I mean I have seen this "special" hoop also on a photo of a Japan BT3?. But it looked not like a BT30.

Klaus

Chris Townsend · 12 Mar 2009, 00:06 (Ref:2413999)

I have a note that BT35-20 [used in F3 by Ingvar Pettersson and Stig Blomquist in 1971/72, then Lars Svensson for three years] was in the USA in 2005
Afraid didn't note source

Chris

Bryan Miller · 12 Mar 2009, 00:10 (Ref:2414003)

Best guess is the Matthew car has had the roll bar redone after an accident or during restoration.

Bryan.

K.Wisskirchen · 12 Mar 2009, 08:51 (Ref:2414139)

Good morning Bryan,

after I found a 2nd car with this rollbar, http://www.goldstar-racing.com/goldstarcarsforsale.htm , I believe the answer is in the book "Ron Tauranac Story" page 203.

"BT36 (Produced 1971- 9 made)
Formula Two car similar to BT35B but with Cosworth FVA engine."

That means, there are only 7 cars which have/had the same chassis as BT36.

BT35A (3 made) and BT35C (27 made) are different to BT36. This "can" be the reason for the different rollbar.

Back to Geoffroy's car: If it's not a BT36, it should be one of the seven BT35B Formula B/ Atlantic.

Klaus

Chris Townsend · 12 Mar 2009, 09:20 (Ref:2414153)

Problem here is that there were more than seven 35Bs
Chassis 6 -Cook
7 - Opert
8 - Reeves
9 - Opert [Craw]
18 - Opert [Robertson]
19 - McCaig
31 - Mike Hansen
32 - unknown user in 1971, Strom 1972
39 - Lader
41 - probably Mike Hall, with Ralston 1973
43 - Gerard
and in unknown chassis in 1971, of which 32 might account for one:
Roy Folland
Steve Harris
Russ Tyndall
and one other Opert car [Robertson uses two; in 1971 one goes to Eagles [18] the other to Justasson

Chris

James Murray · 12 Mar 2009, 09:23 (Ref:2414154)

Klaus

I think Bryan is correct in his assumption that the rool hoop on the car in America was probably made like that when it was restored in USA. Many USA restored cars have horrendous roll hoops when they are rebuilt, possibly due to their preoccupation about health and saftey. Its highly unlikely that car came out of the Brabham factory with that rool hoop.

There were definately 12 BT36 made by Brabham #1-12 and possibly a thirteenth #14. As Bryan said there is no difference between all the BT35/36frames and most significant difference between the 2 cars apart from the running gear are the BT36 fuel tanks, which are the same as the BT30 fuel tanks.

The Geoffroy car have been anything between a BT35 F3/Atlantic or BT36. I very much doubt it was a BT36 as they are all accounted for and chassis no 20 is mssively out of sequence.

driftwood · 12 Mar 2009, 11:14 (Ref:2414205)

re japan Brabhams
i willask my chums there about cars
i knwo there are 2 or 3 Brabs there i did see 1 at a hysterical race event i atteneded in 04 ish i have the porogramme somehwere will look up the data
re the Bt36-14 car i will also ask the guys to look a little deeper

re bt36-20 if we need a french speaker to communicate with the owner perhaps the Belgian can assist or will he say he can speak only flemish and english!

phdm · 12 Mar 2009, 12:41 (Ref:2414248)

Quote:

Originally Posted by driftwood

re bt36-20 if we need a french speaker to communicate with the owner perhaps the Belgian can assist or will he say he can speak only flemish and english!

Monsieur Driftwood,
The Belgian says that what Geoffroy knows about the car has already been reported above so there is no need to communicate further to ask him the same questions and get the same replies.
Faut-il l'écrire en français or in cockney rhyming slang ?

driftwood · 12 Mar 2009, 13:53 (Ref:2414285)

only if you can do it down the frog and toad in the rub a dub with a pigs ear

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