[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

If you read on in the article, Hitzinger explains that he wanted to race the first two races with a package that is not far from the Le Mans package in order to test its structure (among other things). The closer it is to the Le Mans package the better.

It's a bizarre statement. It's not as if Porsche suddenly don't know how to make tough bodywork they've been doing it on the 911's and the RS Psyders for years...I think that comment was more of a "just say something that makes it sound like we had a plan". The reality is Porsche spent a lot of time on the hybrid powertrain and probably didn't leave much room for aero development.

[Spyderman]

Yes, I'm sure they are just a bunch of idiots wondering around Weissach with no real plan and and just concentrating on one particular item as more than 230 people on the program are not capable of multi-tasking. Also- why use the new state-of-the -art Wind tunnel facilities at Porsche? It would just be a waste of time.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Yes, I'm sure they are just a bunch of idiots wondering around Weissach with no real plan and and just concentrating on one particular item as more than 230 people on the program are not capable of multi-tasking. Also- why use the new state-of-the -art Wind tunnel facilities at Porsche. It would really be a waste of time.

hahaha don't be so pessimistic!

Jokes aside, maybe I should rephrase. I don't mean they don't know what they're doing. Much like Toyota, they DO (and no sarcasm intended in that). These are engineering companies smart people. But what I'm saying was aero development was not the outright focus this year clearly in comparison to Audi who came out and said it, they wanted to find gains in the aero. Porsche seems focused on the powertrain (much like Puegeot) and it's paying off in it's own way.

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by porman

Yes, the Le Mans aero will be different to what has been used in the opening two rounds of the championship. It does however seem that post Le Mans we will be able to distinguish more of an aero difference. My hunch is that Porsche are willing to sacrifice some downforce for top-end at circuit La Sarthe.

To me it seems to say that Porsche run the 2 first salvos with a relative *Low Downforce* config, and so the real LM pack wont be easily distinguishible ( of course a little 'less wing' is very easy to guess). So Porsche doesn't seem to have much more HD to sacrifice... and even if they did it wouldn't it aggravate the tire issues ? (don't know if worted)

Its all about balances and tradeoffs... Porsche as the advantage of 8MJ which is quite relevant, and tire grip which is superb(the best). Tire degradation the worst handicap. I don't think they will be able or willing or needing to re-balance everything up to perfection for LM ( there never is perfection), as it is its already pretty much LM... else there wouldn't be tradeoffs, and there are always tradeoffs.

[Spyderman]

Imagine this:

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Imagine this:

410+ kph down the Mulsanne on full boost?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

No. What it means is that the current one is not that different to the Le Mans package.

Didn't they do the same thing last year? Their package for Spa and Silverstone was already good and likely to be further optimized for Le Mans, not a bad strategy IMO.

[Spyderman]

Yes. They did the same last year.

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Imagine this:

Clearly 'illegal' ... it would exceed by large margin the 'overhang' limits of the rules

[Spyderman]

Illegal, but stunning!

[Spyderman]

BTW- I heard that they will slow down the LMP1's after Le Mans. If true it is a disgrace and very sad.

[chernaudi]

I don't think that the ACO should do anything like that until the end of the season, and they should also slow the LMP2 and GT cars by a similar percentage.

Could partially explain the test in July at the Nurburgring GP circuit though.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I don't think that the ACO should do anything like that until the end of the season, and they should also slow the LMP2 and GT cars by a similar percentage.

Could partially explain the test in July at the Nurburgring GP circuit though.

I heard they will speed up GTE and LMP2 a little in 2016 (from the same source)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

BTW- I heard that they will slow down the LMP1's after Le Mans. If true it is a disgrace and very sad.

Why do they always have to ruin things?

[Pandemonium]

Please stick to the topic of this thread. If you worry about the ACO and FIA nerfing the lmp1´s go on twitter and show you worries to them. Maybe with enough complains the will think twice. If you want to discuss the future rules there is a thread specifically made for that. We are living on the very best of sports car racing. Let us enjoy de present.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

Please stick to the topic of this thread. If you worry about the ACO and FIA nerfing the lmp1´s go on twitter and show you worries to them. Maybe with enough complains the will think twice. If you want to discuss the future rules there is a thread specifically made for that. We are living on the very best of sports car racing. Let us enjoy de present.

Lol. Forgive me! Throughout the years I've followed motorsport, which is a few decades, rule changes can have a fundamental affect on a team/car/driver and this ACO/FIA rule change may very well affect Porsche and their LMP1 campaign. Last time I looked wasn't this thread about Porsche LMP1?

I don't use twitter, but you can if you want; don't let me stop you .

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I don't think that the ACO should do anything like that until the end of the season, and they should also slow the LMP2 and GT cars by a similar percentage.

Could partially explain the test in July at the Nurburgring GP circuit though.

It depends... if the old record of the diesels into the 3.18 is broken, they will slow them down, perhaps considerably... if not perhaps we will get another try next year ( and Audi better not try to be the one... better forget qualifying... or Toyota doesn't have to complain a bit for a heavy hand coming(remember Silverstone))...

[ OTOH perhaps Audi will not try... if its Porsche doing it, the VAG will gain the record from Peugeot PSA, most probably they will be happy... and will not object cuts]

No, its not conspiracy, oil business interests will gain clearly IMO (preserve the status quo, not having any momentous of pesky super economic things into 'sport' car categories, specially road going-> the more the liters of fuel sold the merrier for business)... also a prejudice is much harder to break than the head who has them...

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

Please stick to the topic of this thread. If you worry about the ACO and FIA nerfing the lmp1´s go on twitter and show you worries to them. Maybe with enough complains the will think twice. If you want to discuss the future rules there is a thread specifically made for that. We are living on the very best of sports car racing. Let us enjoy de present.

lol... AFAIK motorsport has always been dirtied by pesky politics... its based on several industry business interests... and its not only in endurance, in F1 for its part, since it gained very wide visibility from the time of Ayrton Senna vs Prost duels has became clearly disgusting...

Some remarks into politics don't derail threads i think... and you can complain how much you like about politics to anyone you want( as you mention)... to see if that helps LOL...

So in this context, what everyone is in great expectation to see is if Porsche can really break the records of this format of La Sathre circuit ... ppl will rejoice, applaud, remember, re-watch videos etc if they do... but yes or no, what will pass next will be 'politics' i asure you.

[Articus]

http://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/j...-go-at-le-mans

3:15 is the number at which apparently ACO will step in. Drivers anonymous saying 3:14 possible)

[Spyderman]

My source is one of the "gentlemen" drivers. Apparently GT drivers have complained about the speed of the LMP1's saying that they have to spend too much time looking into their mirrors.
Whilst I have some sympathy for their plight, surely there must be another solution other than castration.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by hcl123

It depends... if the old record of the diesels into the 3.18 is broken, they will slow them down, perhaps considerably... if not perhaps we will get another try next year ( and Audi better not try to be the one... better forget qualifying... or Toyota doesn't have to complain a bit for a heavy hand coming(remember Silverstone))...

[ OTOH perhaps Audi will not try... if its Porsche doing it, the VAG will gain the record from Peugeot PSA, most probably they will be happy... and will not object cuts]

No, its not conspiracy, oil business interests will gain clearly IMO (preserve the status quo, not having any momentous of pesky super economic things into 'sport' car categories, specially road going-> the more the liters of fuel sold the merrier for business)... also a prejudice is much harder to break than the head who has them...

"oil business"? Is diesel made and marketed by the wheat business?

[Spyderman]

Porsche doing its last test before Le Mans , in Aragon starting tomorrow.

[Spyderman]

I thought you guys might enjoy this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7_M...ature=youtu.be

[cokata]

They shouldn't slow the P1 cars down. But GT cars are super underpowered. It is not normal for the race version of the 458 to have more than 100bhp less than the street car, and rev to just 6500rpm.

The ideal solution for me is to give GT cars a lot more power, and to merge the P1-L and P2 into one class. It is kind of funny that both P2 and GT cars struggle to hit 300kph on the fastest circuit in the world.

[hcl123]

And why not open LMP2 and GT to diesel...

* And open engine tech for every class like for LMP1, regulated by fuel allocation with exact the same MJ/lap of the corresponding fuel ... and corresponding fuel tanks capacity to the fuel energy,

[everybody stops at determined distances windows for fuel... other stops must go directly into garage]

* weights much more close between classes,

* hybrid categories of 3, 5, 7, 9 MJ for diesel, technology factor resolved in the hybrid energy not fuel, 1.15 ( much more real related to diff efficiency between petrol vs diesel) in favor of petrol or 15% instead of the 7,7% now, so 3.45, 5.75, 8.1, 10.35 MJ for petrol

* LMP2 mandatory fixed in the 1th hybrid category ( 3 or 3,45 MJ) but less weight than LMP1

* LMP3 exclusive petrol and non hybrid ( like today LMP2)

* Supercar GT with the same rules of LMP1 only a little more weight( so we could have the 'hybrid' versions of the McLarens P1 Ferrari F50 and Bugatti Veyrons)... perhaps we could have a supercar winning overall

* GTE Pro class as now it could be hybrid or not but not above 1th hybrid category... and less weight.

( the rest would be too slow to even show up...)