BOSS GP

[simtek12]

That is a good story, Adam.

Philippe Haezebrouck has done an excellent job, because he was set to run an IRL from Ryschka for the weekend.
But on Friday he switched to the "Mad Croc" WSbR from Top Speed, where Boris Bouvier didn't run.

Didier Sirgue's Williams FW21 had fuelpump issues is what I've heard.

Arnold Wagner, Marijn van Kalmthout and Frits van Eerd where missed very much, because that would have made the races much more interesting and exciting.
Especially because Klaas Zwart didn't have "clean" races.

Ingo Gerstl has done an amazing job in modifying his GP2 car with all sorts of updates, not only DRS, but despite that, he can't keep up with Klaas.
It would be cool to see what Ingo could do in a proper F1 car.

I have seen Patrick d'Aubreby in the pits around Didier Sirgue's cars, it would be good to see him back with his Benetton B192.
And I hope the Prost's will be back someday.

Only 3 or 4 cars in the Open Class is bit low, although the total number of entries was good with 20 cars.

I know Zandvoort will be great, they could probably call it "Masters of BOSSgp" in the future, since most spectators come for them and not the F3.

[Speedblood]

Think I may have to blow some of my hard earned money and make the trip over to Zandvoort this year
I need a reason to visit The Netherlands afterall!

[adam46]

Thanks for the futher details Simtek!

I was just kind of picking up shards of race information for 10/10's and other websites. I will edit it apporpriatly on my word document!

[Martin-GTS]

Entry List Austria:

Klaas Zwart Jaguar
Henk de Boer
IngoGerstl
Gianluca Ripoli
Carlos Antunes Tavares
PeterMilavec
Bernd Herndlhofer
Michele La Rosa
Karl-Heinz Becker
Johann Ledermair
NorbertGruber
Peter Randlshofer
Walter Steding
Christopher Brenier
Gilles Brenier

[Martin-GTS]

Not really tingly,
I will accept the invitation to Salzburg and give me the WTCC including the good Youngtimer
incl. Gr.5 BMW

[adam46]

The entry list looks pretty decent!

What will the Brenier's be driving? Will Michele La Rosa be in an Auto GP car??

Shame that van Kalmthout is still not there though.

I may as well cut a long story short and ask just generally who will be driving what?

[Valker]

Originally Posted by adam46

What will the Brenier's be driving? Will Michele La Rosa be in an Auto GP car??

Entry list (with cars) here: http://www3.msc-wolfsberg.at/images/...11_05_2012.pdf

Interserie is also at Red Bull Ring. Entry list: http://www3.msc-wolfsberg.at/images/...ste_gesamt.pdf (scroll down to page 2)

Milavec will do both, BOSS GP and Interserie.

[Thundersports]

As predicted the series is becoming a graveyard for redundant one make formula cars;
1 x F1 car
5 x GP2
7 x World series cars

[Thundersports]

And Interserie...........there must be so many redundant proper prototypes out there without anywhere to race to make a series!!!! I know a series alongside Euroboss was talked about not long ago as some of the Boss guys have cars. This series went belly up when it started allowing single seaters with "mudguards" to race and this is what we've ended up with......It should really drop the Interserie title as it is an insult to the great series of the 70s/80s/early 90s.

[Puzzle]

Hi all
been watching this thread and series for a little while and have been wondering why don't they let in post '04 F1 machines is it to do with cost some how? or do the F1 teams/organizers have something against people racing their cars for some reason?

[ECW Dan Selby]

I was contemplating maybe going to see this this weekend when I read it was at the Red Bull Ring. I'd love to have a walk around and see the old Osterreichring.

Trouble is:
1) I can only find a return flight for £260, which is pretty steep, really. Could anyone advise?
2) I just read there'll be 1 F1 car there...?!

Selby

[simtek12]

@Thundersports (and all others)

I don't think it is down to the BOSSgp itself for this entry level and pretty much single make formula.

I have inside information that a number of drivers are busy on bringing in some decent F1 cars, they are just not ready yet. It's not easy to run these cars, as you will know, so sourcing parts to get the cars running properly is a task and challenge in itself.

And maybe the travel to Austria and (business) commitments keeps some others from running.

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I think we'll see and experience the best grids at Zandvoort and Nürburgring.
At DTM they will be the best support act and at Zandvoort they are pretty much headlining the event, although it's still called "Masters of F3".
(The Dutch crowd love BOSSgp more than the F3 race. )

[adam46]

To be fair some regulars like Wagner and co may not want to show up because it is a Non-Championship round.

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by adam46

To be fair some regulars like Wagner and co may not want to show up because it is a Non-Championship round.

It makes no difference to the majority only Klaas is interested in that.

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by simtek12

@Thundersports (and all others)

I don't think it is down to the BOSSgp itself for this entry level and pretty much single make formula.

I have inside information that a number of drivers are busy on bringing in some decent F1 cars, they are just not ready yet. It's not easy to run these cars, as you will know, so sourcing parts to get the cars running properly is a task and challenge in itself.

And maybe the travel to Austria and (business) commitments keeps some others from running.

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I think we'll see and experience the best grids at Zandvoort and Nürburgring.
At DTM they will be the best support act and at Zandvoort they are pretty much headlining the event, although it's still called "Masters of F3".
(The Dutch crowd love BOSSgp more than the F3 race. )

As myself and the now departed former Euroboss racer driftwood said a long time ago the rot set in with the previous regime allowing post 1997 cars. The later cars are to expensive and complicated to run from first hand experience. If a pre 97 rule had been kept you wouldn't have everyone playing catch up with the Zwarts of this world. You'd have had a selection of 80s/90s F1 cars and proper F3000 cars, everyone has gone the GP2/WSR route understandbly due to cost. These cars running also puts owners of F1 cars running an ex Boss F1 driver I know has said if he came back it would be the GP2/WSR route sad really.

[courageous]

If you want big race cars, you have 3 options:

A)Modern
B)What was modern when you were a kid
C)Historic


BOSS type racing (prob includes Group C Le Mans) is at a watershed...

10-20 years ago, racing technology went over the cliff when it came so expensivive and complex that ammatuers couldn't last (how many F1 teams folded in the early '90s?)


To satisfy B) above you need to be running cars that people can recall seeing when they were younger.

Somebody born in 1996 even if forced to watch motorsport form birth would at best recall 2001 cars - they are now 16 year olds.

So does BOSS become proper historic or reflect the change to spec cars that occured in the 90's?

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by courageous

If you want big race cars, you have 3 options:

A)Modern
B)What was modern when you were a kid
C)Historic


BOSS type racing (prob includes Group C Le Mans) is at a watershed...

10-20 years ago, racing technology went over the cliff when it came so expensivive and complex that ammatuers couldn't last (how many F1 teams folded in the early '90s?)


To satisfy B) above you need to be running cars that people can recall seeing when they were younger.

Somebody born in 1996 even if forced to watch motorsport form birth would at best recall 2001 cars - they are now 16 year olds.

So does BOSS become proper historic or reflect the change to spec cars that occured in the 90's?

Good points Historic Group C for years didn't allow the more modern atmo cars in for the reason like Boss should have done; too expensive/complicated to run, they would instantly make everything else redundant and they are not as interesting as a mix of the older cars. The TGP/Masters series are fairly strong mix of different looking cars sounds etc. Had Euroboss/Boss captured the cars from 1985-1997 again you would of had a mix of different sounds and looks. Post 1997 the cars in F1 and the single make formulas all looked and sounded similar. I'm sure there is room for a Historic series for the 85-95ish cars original livery being a little liberal with engine gearbox etc ie you can't get a Mugen/Honda F1 engine. And racing them for fun without being "ultras competetive" about winning........

[simtek12]

It's the same old story about the cut-off date, TS.

I personally like the newer cars, although they don't turn up in large numbers, due to their expensive costs.

To be fair, Klaas has run his Ascari Benetton B197 for way longer than the reg changes. He could have switched to a newer car a couple of years ago, but he didn't.

And about running the "new" Jaguar R5, I have seen no new faces amongst his crew, so if you can run a 1997 Benetton, you should be able to run a newer car, as well.

In the end, the guys that run in BOSS, do it mostly for the fun of driving these fast cars. That can very well be in a pre-1998 car.
But if you want to win the races, than you'll have to buy a competetive car from around 2004. (Those are the fastest F1 cars.)

A new discussion would be good after Zandvoort and Nürburgring, because I really think you started this too soon, TS.

[adam46]

I think that BOSS was fine last year and as stated previously it should be in absolutley excellent form 2-4 times this season. Honestly though I find it very hard to comment on the lack of F1 cars becuase to me GP2, Champcar, WSR etc. are just as interesting as anything from F1's 'back catalouge'. I think as long as we are seeing Big Open Single Seaters being given a second chance at racing after becoming 'obsolete', the championship is serving it's purpose.

You could also say that due to GP2's running 4.0L engines and WSR running 3.5's, they are both more of a Big Open Single Seater than the current breed of 2.4L F1 machines.

Also, Surely if the problems eluded to above are occuring; Won't this affect the whole historic racing scene in about 15 years?

[Thundersports]

Adam it will indeed the Historic scene is stagnant now and has been for a while. 1998 is about the sensible limit for F1 all the modern cars look the same anyway. The Jaguar has been lurkung a while however hasn't been used that much due to reliability and serious ££££££ has been thrown at it. The B197 was a good bench mark and you really don't want the series having faster and faster cars as you then get more safety issues and bigger closing speed problems. Simtek you said "But if you want to win the races, than you'll have to buy a competetive car from around 2004. (Those are the fastest F1 cars.)" This is what is holding the series back in terms of a viable series the best driver out there Gerstl hasn't the budget for this as they are very expensive to run. Stuck to pre 1998 he could have gone the F1 route. Agree with you Zandvoort will be much better but the series needs consistency to become the major player it deserves to be.

[simtek12]

I don't know if I should write this, but I have had talks with Ingo on the subject and he is keen on buying a competetive F1 car. I even gave him a list of all F1 cars powered with Cossi V10s. It's a matter of time, finding the right package for the right price.

I don't think it's a shame that the newer cars are allowed, but that is my personal opinion. I like the V10s from the Wagner Arrows, Van Eerd Tyrrell and now Zwart Jaguar. (And the Prost last year.)

The series was created to run these cars, so if you have a 1997 F1 car and want to run/race it, join the series. If you can't afford a 2004 car, don't moan that you can't win the race, just compete with other F1 cars from the same period. You run your car for your own pleasure, that should be the bottomline.

[adam46]

^ Agreed Simtek, well said. Did you reccomened the FV10 cars to Ingo?

Considering Ingo has managed to get his GP2 a country mile ahead of the others I think that he could make a race winner out of almost any F1 car. But as Simtek said, BOSS GP shouldn't be approached with the mindset of, I won't enter if I can't win.

That's just not the point.

[simtek12]

The entry list for Monza has been released:

1 Klaas Zwart Jaguar R5 Cosworth V10
3 Phil Stratford Tyrrell 022 Judd V10
13 Arnold Wagner Arrows A22 Asiatech V10
14 Michael Woodcock Arrows A22 Hart V10

21 Henk de Boer Panoz DP01 Cosworth V8 Turbo
22 Jens Renstrup Dallara GP2 Renault V8
23 Ingo Gerstl Dallara GP2 Renault V8
24 Gianluca Ripoli Dallara GP2 Renault V8
25 Philippe Bourgois G-Force Indycar Chevrolet V8
27 Carlos Antunes Tavares Dallara GP2 Renault V8
30 Peter Milavec Panoz DP01 AER V8 Bi-Turbo
31 Bernd Herndlhofer Dallara GP2 Renault V8
35 Armando Mangini Dallara GP2 Renault V8
40 Rembert Berg Dallara GP2 Renault V8

41 Karl-Heinz Becker Dallara WS Nissan V6
43 "Luke Skywalker" Dallara WS Renault V6
44 Johann Ledermair Dallara WS Renault V6
45 Norbert Gruber Dallara WS Renault V6
50 Peter Randlshofer Dallara WS Nissan V6
51 Sergio Ghiotto Lola B02/50 Zytek V8
57 Maurizio Copetti Dallara WS Nissan V6
62 Christophe Hurni Dallara WS Renault V6
66 Walter Steding Dallara WS Nissan V6

That looks decent to me with 23 cars.

And in the open class an entry I haven't seen before, but maybe that has to do with me following since 2001.
I hope more cars from that period will be run in the future.

[ECW Dan Selby]

Would love to see the newer ones round Brands - Does this happen?

Selby

[Speedblood]

Originally Posted by simtek12

And in the open class an entry I haven't seen before, but maybe that has to do with me following since 2001.
I hope more cars from that period will be run in the future.

If you mean the Tyrrell of Phil Stratford then you'd be forgiven for not seeing it before as I believe that to be a new entrant altogether in europe

If I'm right in thinking, Phil Stratford has participated in the US B.O.S.S series (a division of the Historic Sportscar Racing organization) with that car. I think there's a few videos on youtube of his Tyrrell at Road Atlanta and Elkhart Lake/Road America.

@Selby- I hope they return to Brands at some point. Last time they were there was 2009 and I can only hope that it wasn't the last visit. If not the camcorder memories will have to do!