Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued...

[racer69]

Would that car pictured not be a VK 'reskinned' with VL panels which went to John Farrell, rather than the 'full-on' VL which went to Moffat.

Brock i recall reading somewhere originally intended, prior to the Holden break-up, 3 cars in the ATCC. A VL for himself, and two VKs for Moffat and Harvey.

Brings up an interesting thing though with the VL displaying the #3, why did the MHDT change the number of the second car each year? In the 'Brock reign' since 1980, we had seen #05 and #25, but once Mobil took over we saw;

1985 - #05 and #7
1986 - #05 and #3 (#7 at the New Zealand races, but Garry Rogers ran #7 on his BMW, to tie in with his Channel 7 backing)
1987 - #05 and #6 ([except at WTCC events] #3 at New Zealand races, Jum ran the #3 on his M3 during the ATCC)



PS - Am i the only one who thinks the '86 paintwork suits the VL much better than the VK

[Conrod Kieron]

Originally Posted by Shiney

G,day Cavvy, The panels were from Waynes L34, not the A9X.(Hatchback.)
The A9X was owned by Paul Kramer before Paul Stubber bought it to race in Group C. He has been racing it in the U.S.A. and doing quite well I might add.
Don't know what happened to Waynes L34.

Was this his gold 4 door? if so the last time I saw it was back in 1992, stripped to the shell and sitting out the back of a LHD-RHD company in the industrial area near Booragoon WA, they also had a MHDT Negus 2 door shell, can't recall the name of the place but I don't thinks its there nowadays.

[groupnxu1]

Originally Posted by racer69

Would that car pictured not be a VK 'reskinned' with VL panels which went to John Farrell, rather than the 'full-on' VL which went to Moffat.

racer69 i think you are correct in saying that this car is the Farrell car, from the look of the photo it still has the VK dash in the car, The only other car to have this paint scheme was the soon to be Rothmans car but this car was a true VL so there was no reason for it to have a VK dash board.

[anthony81901]

HDT only reskinned one VK, but not until well after Harvey had left the team. The # 3 Harvey car from 86 which Gary Scott, Brock, David Parsons and Jon Crooke drove during the 87 series as # 6 was reskinned for Crooke and Neil Crompton to drive in the Oran Park and Sandown enduros.

Presumably it was planned to use the 86 paint scheme as the VKs in 87 retained this livery. The VL which Brock debuted at Surfers Paradise featured a revised livery to reflect the changed sponsorship of the team.

[Shiney]

Originally Posted by Conrod Kieron

Was this his gold 4 door? if so the last time I saw it was back in 1992, stripped to the shell and sitting out the back of a LHD-RHD company in the industrial area near Booragoon WA, they also had a MHDT Negus 2 door shell, can't recall the name of the place but I don't thinks its there nowadays.

If the L34 was there when Paul Kramer bought the hatchback I am sure he would have snapped that up as well. (He had the foresight to collect old race cars before they became really hot property) He also owns the Janson Perkins A9X and had it for sale for $245,000. A bit pricey considering that Bob Morris's Torana was passed in at the last Shannons auction. (Advertised beforehand for $110,000.)


The No.3 V.L. above looks awesome in the '86 colours.

[MHDT]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

HDT only reskinned one VK, but not until well after Harvey had left the team. The # 3 Harvey car from 86 which Gary Scott, Brock, David Parsons and Jon Crooke drove during the 87 series as # 6 was reskinned for Crooke and Neil Crompton to drive in the Oran Park and Sandown enduros.

You are correct in that one VK was converted to a VL, however the VK was chassis # 14, the same car Moffat crashed at Bathurst in 1986.

Originally Posted by groupnxu1

racer69 i think you are correct in saying that this car is the Farrell car, from the look of the photo it still has the VK dash in the car, The only other car to have this paint scheme was the soon to be Rothmans car but this car was a true VL so there was no reason for it to have a VK dash board.

I am unable to see the VK Dash in the # 3 car

I think it would be safe to assume the 'HDT #3 VL' would be the 05 car re-numbered, primarily because the HDT chassis numbers show the last VK to be #14, and the first VL to be #15 (the 'HDT 05 VL' pictured), and the second VL to be #16 (the HDT Racing 05 VL debuted at Surfers); and secondly because the 'HDT #3 VL' appears to have the same white scuff marks on the lower RHS of the front spoiler that the 'HDT #05 VL' (pictured) has.



That being so, it would appear a fair amount of effort was put into the re-stickering for the photo shoot, with the numbers changed on the door and the roof, plus the driver's name on the door, being changed.
Perhaps Harves could shed some light on this?

Originally Posted by Shiney

The No.3 V.L. above looks awesome in the '86 colours.

It certainly looks different, particularly as this racer was never seen racing. I am of the opinion the HDT Racing VL looked like a far more integrated design.

[Shiney]

Originally Posted by MHDT

I am of the opinion the HDT Racing VL looked like a far more integrated design.

It always looked a bit fat (heavy) at the rear to me. Each to their own though.
Any idea what prompted the switch from Wade cams to Crane during this period?

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Conrod Kieron

Was this his gold 4 door? if so the last time I saw it was back in 1992, stripped to the shell and sitting out the back of a LHD-RHD company in the industrial area near Booragoon WA, they also had a MHDT Negus 2 door shell, can't recall the name of the place but I don't thinks its there nowadays.

I was referring to the HDT Torana SLR5000, not a L34, that Negus punted when he went back to Perth from HDT, LH?

Are you thinking of a Commodore Kieron?

[Conrod Kieron]

I started going to Wanneroo in 1977 and around this era he raced a 4 door SLR5000 type Torana painted dull gold without sponsors, pretty sure it was in the street car class along with Ron Lindau (XA with XC nose, later mechanicals transferred into XD which was subsequently written off by Lindau), Rod Donovan (XC coupe - written off by Mick Moylan), Graham Hooley (Torrie hatchback A9X?), Trevor Hine (Elan, still around I believe).

[groupnxu1]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

HDT only reskinned one VK, but not until well after Harvey had left the team. The # 3 Harvey car from 86 which Gary Scott, Brock, David Parsons and Jon Crooke drove during the 87 series as # 6 was reskinned for Crooke and Neil Crompton to drive in the Oran Park and Sandown enduros.

Presumably it was planned to use the 86 paint scheme as the VKs in 87 retained this livery. The VL which Brock debuted at Surfers Paradise featured a revised livery to reflect the changed sponsorship of the team.

HDT did reskin 2 VK's one for themselves and one for John Farrell the farrell car was built as a VK Group A after he sold the VK Group C car to Cleeland and was apparently leased back by HDT in 1986 ( Not sure what the car was used for at this stage Farrell believes that it may have gone oversea's) as a part of the deal it was to be reskined as a VL and this was how Farrell raced it in WA including the VK Style colour Scheme (can someone post the photo for me?) The only other VL that i have seen with this colour scheme was the Rothmans car it still had lines of the HDT VK colours under the Rothmans paint

[anthony81901]

I guess that HDT leased the car back in 86 to provide cover while one of the ATCC cars was in Europe for use as the 2nd car at the Spa 24 Hours.

Does anybody know which chassis were used during the ETCC campaign and if they were returned to Australia?

[acotrel]

I note the earlier discussion about Sierra Cosworths. I believe Bob Tweedie was running an ex Seton car at the Australian Historic Motorfest in 2003 at Winton. Incidentally it's on again next weekend !st & 2nd October 2005. See you there!

[MHDT]

Originally Posted by anthony81901

Does anybody know which chassis were used during the ETCC campaign and if they were returned to Australia?

It would have to be either 10,11,12 or 13; based on the following:

6 (known) - VK big banger #05
7 (known) - VK big banger #25 (maybe)

8 (logical) - VK Group A 1985 ATCC (i.e. 1st Group A car)
9 (logical) - VK Group A 1985 Endurance Series (i.e. 2nd Group A car)

10 -
11 -
12 -
13 -

14 (known) - VK Group A #05 - 1986 Bathurst Car/VL Group A - 1987 Oran Park/Sandown
15 (known) - VL Group A - Rothmans
16 (known) - VL Group A - #05 ATCC/#10 Spa, Bathurst
17 (known) - VL Group A - #05 Endurance Series

Apparently this car stayed in Europe, but for how long?

[groupnxu1]

The John Farrell VK to VL Reskin

[Shiney]

Originally Posted by cavvy

The Negus street car, it still exists doesnt it?

The only Negus street car I am aware of is the Mustard Yellow A9X(road car) that was for sale 6 months ago for $50,000. It was the only auto built.(Turbo 400).
When I mentioned the alloy panels in my earlier post I was assuming they came from an L34 as I believe the A9X 4 door that was raced by Brock and Harrop/Obrien never came to the west. I didn't even think about the SLR 5000. These panels have flares fitted and have since been painted silver.

[jewby]

Originally Posted by Nivola

I think it is time I went trought the old wascc programes if I can find them. The days of the 300.

people that had vp vr and vs crapadores where

Alf Barbagello<perkins built chasis>
Ian Love <perkins built chasis> (John farrel drove both)
Shaun Walker
Blythman<wayne gardner Hrt VP>
Slako <his own>
Danny Miller<car still in WA>
Geoff Kendrick
Falcons
Claude Gorgi<setos EB>
Peter Hanson<cat ef>

Shiney When you see slako next ask him about the day he bent chasis the charger when he put it through the spectator fence at the bottom of the hill when it was called rothmans corner!!!!!!

God Nivola now that WAS a long time ago I have a picture of Slako's Charger parked in the old paddock next to Bob Jane's Camaro. Good days!

[Nivola]

Jewby I was not born in that era but I know some of the things that has happerned in this state better then those that where there then!!!!

I ve been told that the charger had to go back to chrysler because it bent the chasis big time. Need it for tests.

I saw the rover before it was changed from its esso livery. Think it was the week it got in to australia.

If you want some info jewby just ask!!!!

[Razor]

Well, what happened to Dick Johnson's FJ Holden and Holden Torana's he used to race in when he started out?

[Henry]

The Toranas were onsold to various people: Barry Wraith bought his sports sedan shell IIRC, Charlie O'Brien bought one.... dunno about the pair of FJ's or the EH...

[jewby]

Originally Posted by Nivola

Jewby I was not born in that era but I know some of the things that has happerned in this state better then those that where there then!!!!

I ve been told that the charger had to go back to chrysler because it bent the chasis big time. Need it for tests.

I saw the rover before it was changed from its esso livery. Think it was the week it got in to australia.

If you want some info jewby just ask!!!!

Likewise Nivola, except I was there Thanks

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by Shiney

The only Negus street car I am aware of is the Mustard Yellow A9X(road car) that was for sale 6 months ago for $50,000. It was the only auto built.(Turbo 400).
When I mentioned the alloy panels in my earlier post I was assuming they came from an L34 as I believe the A9X 4 door that was raced by Brock and Harrop/Obrien never came to the west. I didn't even think about the SLR 5000. These panels have flares fitted and have since been painted silver.

Wayne Negus came back to WA after placing 2nd at Bathurst with Bob Forbes - he had been working for Harry Firth & somehow organised an SLR 5000 in full HDT regalia & raced it in the street car class - this car was replaced by the car now owned by Paul Stubber.

A Brock L34 came directly to WA & was raced by Barry Kallawk.

Alloy panels: I was unaware any of these cars (L34 or A9X) ran alloy panels.

[cavvy]

The ex Moffat Monza has been sold in the US in recent months - sold as a roller, asking price was $US 45,000.

[Group'C']

Originally Posted by cavvy

Alloy panels: I was unaware any of these cars (L34 or A9X) ran alloy panels.

I think they ran some illegal light weight panels on the L34 toranas
The B&D Autos car that was built by HDT was sold on to Bob Forbes, At Sandown scutiny some of the panels were checked and found to be under the standard weight.

I think they used to Acid dip them ! ! !

[Shiney]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Wayne Negus came back to WA after placing 2nd at Bathurst with Bob Forbes - he had been working for Harry Firth & somehow organised an SLR 5000 in full HDT regalia & raced it in the street car class - this car was replaced by the car now owned by Paul Stubber.

A Brock L34 came directly to WA & was raced by Barry Kallawk.

Alloy panels: I was unaware any of these cars (L34 or A9X) ran alloy panels.

My memory has just been jiggled. I have a photo of Negus at Wanneroo in October 1977 in an A9X Hatch with full HDT warpaint and 6 inch rims running in the street car class.

I don't know the complete history of the alloy panels, but the bloke who owns them now saw them years ago when they were owned by a bloke by the name of Terry Hewitt and they still had the HDT paint job then. Only HDT could organise to have them stamped out anyway. I have lifted the bootlid on one finger. I have always wondered why there was no front doors. Perhaps driver safety? Maybe they have been lost or damaged beyond repair.

Group 'C', to shed a bit of light on the acid dipped panels on the L34s, I own one with the Track Pack option and although I haven't measured anything yet I believe the whole body as well as all bolt on panels may have been acid dipped on this car (not HDT). I have owned a lot of Toranas in my time and none of them have "felt" as light as this one. The roof will bow in and out with barely any pressure at all. If "Wheels" had tested one of these with the Track Pack option in '74 it would have been an instant legend as it really is a quick car. (Pity its got no brakes!!) The A9X deserves the status it has because of its achievements on the race track but I will have an L34 as a road car any day.
Best get back to the subject.

[Beatcha]

The track pack was not acid dipped but actually made from a slightly thinner metal, there was some concern when it happened but it still did fit in with the manufacturers tolerances. right at the lower limit anyway. Has also happened with a few of the later HDT Group A cars, things were made to lower of higher tolerances depending on what was needed. Wheel wells is one that comes to mind, manufacturers tolerances on those were pretty loose.