ALMS Rnd 1: 12 Hours of Sebring 14-17 Mar 2007

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by The359

Replay of the last lap by Speed is on YouTube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fbl_Yjm7VBk

Well, more obvious that Melos move coming up to start/finish was intentional you can't have imho. He clearly changed line there, there was absolutely no need for contact there.

[Bramzel]

[edit] To make myself clear: I'm not saying Risi didn't deserve the win, I am however saying that that last move was not necessary and in my opinion is a smudge on the glory of their victory.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by JAG

To make matters worse all we here from Atherton, DSC, RLM etc. is how great the series is, excuses for this, that and the other.

I'm happy to accept criticism where due but the above statement just is not fair comment

I was with Hindy when he/we did an interview with Scott A on Wednesday when he was very clear indeed that the current situation in LMP1 and GT1 was not good enough. From memory (and apologies if its foggy, I've just spent a sleepless night crossing the Atlantic!) Scott actually said that he wasn't going to make excuses, and he didn't.

FWIW I also believe that both the LMP2 and GT2 fields stand scrutiny with anything else out there - And that's what you'll have heard me say and have seen me write over the last few days.

Further I'm personally of the opinion that we are currently seeing GT1 across the board (not just in ALMS) in a serious decline - Car numbers in Europe may be higher but there are precious few new cars and precious few fully pro driver manned cars.

Add to that the situation that now leaves just the FFSA with GT1 cars in a domestic championship (therefore little or no market for hand me downs) and there are signs that the class is in trouble. 2007 might just be a final high water mark - discuss!

One other quick point - If the comment was directed at the radio output from Sebring then you must attribute it to ALMS Radio Web, not RLM - The people may be the same in many regards but the Radio Web is paid for by the ALMS themselves (although I am not!)

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

As most of you know (and you can certainly tell by my name) I'm a Porsche fanatic but unfortunately, I must agree that the Spyder's performance was far from acceptable.

Porsche should really take an example at Acura. They did a 12 hour race simulation February 20 and only 1 car got to the finish. Less than a month later, the 3 cars last 12 hours and they are 1-2-4 in LMP2. Highly impressive

Originally Posted by Spyderman

However, I think that the racing that was produced from the "less" restricted P2's (especially when the Spyder's were running) served to show that IMSA was/is correct in not pursuing the ACO's slanted 5% restrictor rule , and it is from this class that Audi will get any realistic opposition within the foreseeable future.

What if ALMS had implemented the ACO rules? The outcome of the race would be exactly the same. The LMP2 race would have been as exciting. You only wouldn't have had the illusion that LMP2 could challenge for overall victory

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

I'm happy to accept criticism where due but the above statement just is not fair comment.......

Absolutely, Graham. Where the trumpets have been blown relentlessly in the past (with regard to the ALMS) is in the 'quality' of the teams involved. Bigger budgets and a higher proportion of paid drivers etc. But, this should not be confused with the issues surrounding the (well documented) lack of competition in LMP1/GT1 this year which has always been reported evenhandedly and without bias. These are seperate issues which, although they detract from the overall spectacle, in no way negate the fact that the level of competition in LMP2 and GT2 is as good as anything you will see in Sportscar racing anywhere in the world. Fact!

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

[edit] To make myself clear: I'm not saying Risi didn't deserve the win, I am however saying that that last move was not necessary and in my opinion is a smudge on the glory of their victory.

There was nothing wrong with Melo's pass, no line to crossover, none of that bull. It was the LAST lap of the race and are you saying you would have conceeded the victory just because your tires were worn????

Its your race to loose, your suppose to defend your postion, not just let somebody have it.

What are they always saying in motorsports?

"Its one thing to catch a guy, its quite another to pass him....."

Bergy was just playing the "Cry Baby" role and that's fine too, nobody likes to LOOSE...

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

There was nothing wrong with Melo's pass, no line to crossover, none of that bull. It was the LAST lap of the race and are you saying you would have conceeded the victory just because your tires were worn????

Its your race to loose, your suppose to defend your postion, not just let somebody have it.

What are they always saying in motorsports?

"Its one thing to catch a guy, its quite another to pass him....."

Bergy was just playing the "Cry Baby" role and that's fine too, nobody likes to LOOSE...

There is no question that it wasn't a clean pass, and frankly I can't believe that anyone would say there was nothing wrong with it.

I would suggest that whether the pass should have resulted in a penalty, or not, is a rather dark shade of grey. Defending one's position, as was done on the Andretti Straight is fine... the first bump in turn 17, fine... The second bump to the rear quarter panel reaches into the grey area, but on it's own would be hard racing. Once beside each other, Melo moved over on Jorg, and continued to move over on him. That isn't incidental contact, it was on purpose, and it was done down the straight. Jorg had two choices, lift out, or crash. It made for great TV, and great YouTube. If you haven't reviewed the incident several times, do so.

I don't think races should be decided, based upon contact that was needless, dangerous and purposeful. The manner of the contact, more than anything else, sets a bad precedent. I hope that the ALMS is at least consistent now, in how things are called.

[paul-collins]

I'm not certain the move over at the very end was intentional.

The bumps, to me, seemed to carry Melo over into Bergmeister as he was completing the pass. Melo's car jerked to the left and was pointed to the wall as he was passing, and I think this alignment might have been the result of the contact. It's unfortunate, as at that time Melo seemed to have the momentum anyway to get bast Bergmeister, but with the car pointed to the left, it ended up squeezing Jorg and Jorg had to pedal out to not be carried into the wall.

To be honest, it appeared to me that if Jorg had've gotten into Melo's back quarter, Melo might have been into the wall nose first, with Jorg getting back around him. Full props to Jorg for staying clean in what must've been a tempting situation.

Thanks for the youtube link.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

There was nothing wrong with Melo's pass, no line to crossover, none of that bull. It was the LAST lap of the race and are you saying you would have conceeded the victory just because your tires were worn????

Its your race to loose, your suppose to defend your postion, not just let somebody have it.

What are they always saying in motorsports?

"Its one thing to catch a guy, its quite another to pass him....."

Bergy was just playing the "Cry Baby" role and that's fine too, nobody likes to LOOSE...

Did you even see that movie? I'm not talking about defending, I'm talking about touching. Defending is fine, hitting someone isn't. And if you hit once it's an accident. But if you hit twice (1st time isn't visible on that posted vid) it's not-done.

[Adam43]

Wasn't the main complaint about what happened on the back straight, not in turn 17. The coverage swapped cameras too much to fully see what happened, but why was Bermeister so close to the wall on the LHS?

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Bergy was just playing the "Cry Baby" role and that's fine too, nobody likes to LOOSE...

Well, having an oversteering car can make you cry, but sometimes it can make you smile.

[ss_collins]

the lingering death of GT1 is more of a reason to look to japan.

[cmk]

I know that what Bergmeister complained about as far as I can tell was the back straight action. I don't buy that. What happened on the exit of 17 is much more debatable.

I have to go with Paul here - it's really impossible to know how much was Melo's doing, and how much was mediated by the bumps, particularly the big one in the middle of 17. Things notably start to go from clean to questionable just as they get to the bump. And as with Paul, I think the (fair) squeeze on the entrance to 17 gave Melo the momentum to get by without contact, so I wish it hadn't been there and we could enjoy it without debate.

[brielga]

Well, I think Bergmeister was really ****ed off and I don't blame him with all that adrenaline flowing it was a tough thing to lose that way. However I think it was great racing and both gave everything they had. In the times of JWR Siffert and Rodriguez were racing like this frequently being team mates so....

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by cmk

I know that what Bergmeister complained about as far as I can tell was the back straight action. I don't buy that. What happened on the exit of 17 is much more debatable.

I think being pushed towards the wall on a straight (if that is what happened) is much worse than the turn 17 corner moment. As you describe the corner has comprimises with bumps and some part of the incident can be attributed to that. That is why Bergmeister highlights the back straight, surely?

The crazy Mexican b****** never drove Siffert towards a concrete wall on a straight.

[JAG]

All the commentators on Speed said they would have done the same for a Sebring win.

I was expecting a huge sideswipe, in fact it was a slight nudge, Melo could easily aregue Bergmeister tried to close the door early.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

the lingering death of GT1 is more of a reason to look to japan.

Not if you don't want to introduce a thrid prototype class.

GT2's wth 5% bigger restrictors, 14in tyres, 1100kg min weight and carbon breaks would be perfect.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Absolutely, Graham. Where the trumpets have been blown relentlessly in the past (with regard to the ALMS) is in the 'quality' of the teams involved. Bigger budgets and a higher proportion of paid drivers etc. But, this should not be confused with the issues surrounding the (well documented) lack of competition in LMP1/GT1 this year which has always been reported evenhandedly and without bias. These are seperate issues which, although they detract from the overall spectacle, in no way negate the fact that the level of competition in LMP2 and GT2 is as good as anything you will see in Sportscar racing anywhere in the world. Fact!

Some fair comments, but zero competitin in P1 and GT1 overshadows any positives.

[Graham Goodwin]

How can you possibly say that JAG!!

GT2 looked like it was going to be excellent all week - and it was.

And, with the dramatic failure of the Porsches in LMP2 my guess is that we'll see even more fireworks in LMP2 from here on in too. Three manufacturers going head to head, great teams and great drivers - What's not to like?

By all means express unhappiness about LMP1 and GT1 at the moment but to say that it overshadows ANY positives doesn't reflect the reality in the ALMS paddock or, from what I saw, in the spectator enclosures either.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Some fair comments, but zero competitin in P1 and GT1 overshadows any positives.

If that is YOUR opinion fair enough, but it is not a fact.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by JAG

Some fair comments, but zero competitin in P1 and GT1 overshadows any positives.

Even if there weren't any LMP1 or GT1 at all it couldn't overshadow that battle in GT2. I'd even say that GT2 battle overshadowed any other endurance racing out there.

[Bernard Bram]

Besides the contact on the backstraight i think Jörg only has himself to blame for finishing second. He had the better line into the last corner and outbraked himself. He should have taken the inside line out of the corner and not open the door for the counter move. With the Ferrari taking the longer way round it could have been Jörgs turn to squeeze Jaime towards the wall.

[JAG]

Speaking purely as a fan I do not watch the ALMS for GT2's, at best they're a pleasant backdrop.

You're kidding yourself if you think the great unwashed are lapping up these GT2 batles, they're not, they're grumbling about the lack of P1's and GT1's.

They'll take what little they can out of the current ALMS field, but there's a hell of a lot of disgruntlement about the series.

You may not hear it on sportscar forums, but on general automotive forums the ALMS recieves a hell of a beating.

The ALMS appears to recieve an unlimited amount of goodwill, goodwill that's not afforded to other series, they're fair game.

In a few short years we've moved from Audi, BMW and Panoz P1 battles, to waxing lyrical about a last lap GT2 shootout!

[Dani Filth]

i purely watched Sebring for GT2 actually .. there was no point in P1 or GT1

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

You may not hear it on sportscar forums, but on general automotive forums the ALMS recieves a hell of a beating.

SOurce?

Heck of course they do. When you cant compeat with success, complain about it.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

SOurce?

:

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=285555