Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[JorritVD]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Some interesting news today on Midweek Motorsport from Matt Griffin. When I heard all these GTD teams were looking at GTE-Am I thought it was wishful thinking but if I heard correctly he indicated GTE is the same budget for a season in WEC as GTD in TUSC! GTLM is approx 15% more than a season in GTE as well.

A season in GTD costs $2 million. This is mentioned in the NGT switch to PWC article. http://www.racer.com/pwc/pirelli-wor...orld-challenge

If I remember well, some time ago Endurance-Info had an interview with AF Corse. The costs of a GTE-Pro car were €2.5 million, and of a GTE-Am car €1.8 million. So yes, the costs for a TUSCC GTD season are about the same as a GTE-Am season in Fia WEC. (But WEC has a race more next season, so costs could be a bit higher)

But it's not all about the costs, it's also for which programm you can find your sponsors. In ALMS Paul Miller Racing for example could f.e. find easier money for a GTE programm than a programm with a Porsche Cup programm. Same for the GTD or GTE-AM situation. Do your partners have more interest in a worldwide programm, or in an North-American programm.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by JorritVD

A season in GTD costs $2 million. This is mentioned in the NGT switch to PWC article. http://www.racer.com/pwc/pirelli-wor...orld-challenge

If I remember well, some time ago Endurance-Info had an interview with AF Corse. The costs of a GTE-Pro car were €2.5 million, and of a GTE-Am car €1.8 million. So yes, the costs for a TUSCC GTD season are about the same as a GTE-Am season in Fia WEC. (But WEC has a race more next season, so costs could be a bit higher)

But it's not all about the costs, it's also for which programm you can find your sponsors. In ALMS Paul Miller Racing for example could f.e. find easier money for a GTE programm than a programm with a Porsche Cup programm. Same for the GTD or GTE-AM situation. Do your partners have more interest in a worldwide programm, or in an North-American programm.

Do those costs include plain tickets, pay-checks, trucks etc.? Even when it isn't, still surprised that GTE-Am in WEC is cheaper than TUSCC GTD.

FIA WEC doesn't have race more next season. Still 8 races in 2015. They won't go to Brasil, but will go to the Nürburgring. So costs will probably be less in FIA WEC next season. Since Nürburgring is the first race after Le Mans, all cars are in Europe already anyway.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

Do those costs include plain tickets, pay-checks, trucks etc.? Even when it isn't, still surprised that GTE-Am in WEC is cheaper than TUSCC GTD.

2 different costs you mention there.

the budget includes the day to day running of the car, including costs of getting to and being at races, tyres, wages etc etc. it also includes overheads like rent, electricity bills, leases on team vehicles, cleaners, leases on equipment, engines, gearboxes etc.

initial outlays like buying a truck, equipment, car, etc are usually seperate though the team may or may not include repaying the initial investment of buying the car over the course of a few years. it just depends how it's been purchased, and how long a life the car has and how long the team has been around.

so if they have a car and they're looking for somewhere to race it, that's probably going to give them different budgets to having a pile of cash and looking for something to compete in. if you get what i mean!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

FIA WEC doesn't have race more next season. Still 8 races in 2015. They won't go to Brasil, but will go to the Nürburgring. So costs will probably be less in FIA WEC next season. Since Nürburgring is the first race after Le Mans, all cars are in Europe already anyway.

Yeah but on the other hand they now have to carry the cars via air freight to Austin after Nurburbring, which is more expensive than sea freight (ie the logistics excuse given for the gigantic gap (that is still there...) previously))

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by bella

2 different costs you mention there.

the budget includes the day to day running of the car, including costs of getting to and being at races, tyres, wages etc etc. it also includes overheads like rent, electricity bills, leases on team vehicles, cleaners, leases on equipment, engines, gearboxes etc.

initial outlays like buying a truck, equipment, car, etc are usually seperate though the team may or may not include repaying the initial investment of buying the car over the course of a few years. it just depends how it's been purchased, and how long a life the car has and how long the team has been around.

so if they have a car and they're looking for somewhere to race it, that's probably going to give them different budgets to having a pile of cash and looking for something to compete in. if you get what i mean!

Yes, I get what you mean. Thanks for explaining that.

Originally Posted by Chiana

Yeah but on the other hand they now have to carry the cars via air freight to Austin after Nurburbring, which is more expensive than sea freight (ie the logistics excuse given for the gigantic gap (that is still there...) previously))

Yes, true. But now there is no air freight to and from Brazil. So that safes sea freight money then.

[rdjones]

OK how about this one - http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/89...oin-f1-in-2016 - now I have idea how ture this is, but I can see the logic behind the article because there are lot of rumours around at present and someone has put 2 and 2 together and has maybe come up with 4 or even 5.....

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Originally Posted by rdjones

OK how about this one - http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/89...oin-f1-in-2016 - now I have idea how ture this is, but I can see the logic behind the article because there are lot of rumours around at present and someone has put 2 and 2 together and has maybe come up with 4 or even 5.....

I really hope this does not happen.

[MagVanisher]

Let Audi race in Formula One. After all, they got themselves a bit bored now after winning it 13 times. I guess they don't want to get shafted by Porsche and their 16 wins.

On the other hand, I'm sad that they'll drop DTM as well, leaving the series with 2 marques battling out!

[Starfish Primer]

I hope this Audi rumor never materializes but I understand that someone in the directors board demands to beat Mercedes in F1.

[joeb]

Audi leaving sportscar rumors actually go back to before Porsche returned,

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122991

yet they are still here. I think they stay, who wants to join F1 right now?

[CTD]

Originally Posted by joeb

Audi leaving sportscar rumors actually go back to before Porsche returned,

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122991

yet they are still here. I think they stay, who wants to join F1 right now?

It goes back even further to 2007:

[deggis]

Originally Posted by joeb

Audi leaving sportscar rumors actually go back to before Porsche returned,

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122991

yet they are still here. I think they stay, who wants to join F1 right now?

Obviously these aren't directly connected, and situation can change. The lobbying for the [back then] 2013 V4 format was revealed by Newey, so before that aspirations had to be pretty real.

This story seems a bit shady though. 2016 is an odd timing, cutting one year off from the supposed 3-year lifetime of the current P1 car and for F1 seems a bit soon, as a comparison Honda made their announcement in May 2013. And then that DTM + LMP = F1 budget doesn't add up.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by CTD

It goes back even further to 2007:
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploa...ed_600_046.jpg

Fan rendering = rumor. Ok, whatever.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Fan rendering = rumor. Ok, whatever.

I know, but I have a feeling many rumours start off from nothing more than a fan who gets quoted as an insider.
Let's not forget that the "journalist" who wrote that rumour has boosted his site's number of visitors massively.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

I hope this Audi rumor never materializes but I understand that someone in the directors board demands to beat Mercedes in F1.

Oh dear, not good. I seem to remember something similar with Toyota; directors wanting to take on Honda....
So pulled out of successful programmes to take on the challenge of F1.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by deggis

Obviously these aren't directly connected, and situation can change. The lobbying for the [back then] 2013 V4 format was revealed by Newey, so before that aspirations had to be pretty real.

This story seems a bit shady though. 2016 is an odd timing, cutting one year off from the supposed 3-year lifetime of the current P1 car and for F1 seems a bit soon, as a comparison Honda made their announcement in May 2013. And then that DTM + LMP = F1 budget doesn't add up.

Worth remembering that VW aren't happy with the WRC; could they pull out at the end of 2015? That would free up more VAG budget.....

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

Worth remembering that VW aren't happy with the WRC; could they pull out at the end of 2015? That would free up more VAG budget.....

That's a good point and makes more sense (much larger budget) than DTM. (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116468)

[Christian Mogami]

Originally Posted by joeb

Audi leaving sportscar rumors actually go back to before Porsche returned,

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122991

yet they are still here. I think they stay, who wants to join F1 right now?

There been talk building this year that a German engine will be in the RB in 2016 and everybody guess Porsche but Audi is run by the same board.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by rdjones

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/89...oin-f1-in-2016

Same author, longer: http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2014...mula-one-47037

[TF110]

Lots of assumptions and misinformation in that write up. Not saying its impossible Audi goes to F1, but possibly dropping WRC then DTM and WEC, both championship delivering racing, to go to F1 where not even huge budgets guarantee success? I find that difficult to believe.

[Breitling24]

This should fit here:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...favourite.html

[TF110]

Lexus just rolled out the RC F in Japan. The Carbon package is set to debut in February or March. The delay was said to be for quality control in the carbon pieces (hood, roof, spoiler). I think theres still some fine tuning being done on both the race car and the road car.

Not sure on the returning team, but could it be Graff Racing? http://facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=360035900831885

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Breitling24

This should fit here:

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2014/1...favourite.html

I like the sound of the returning team with a 'high profile GT programme' with an existing marque. Well resourced and a surprising signing on the driver front makes this sound like something to enjoy when it's announced.

Graft Racing could be one possibility indeed with that ? image on their fb page.

Gulf Racing?
Bms Italia Scuderia?

[Canada ALMS fan]

I believe Graham may be referring to the return of RAM he mentioned in an article earlier today?

[Mal]

Originally Posted by rdjones

OK how about this one - http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/89...oin-f1-in-2016 - now I have idea how ture this is, but I can see the logic behind the article because there are lot of rumours around at present and someone has put 2 and 2 together and has maybe come up with 4 or even 5.....

Unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me at all. I can't see Audi and Porsche racing each other for long.