GTE Speculation

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

So if you don't expect McLaren to go to GTE then who would you propose to be the main push behind allowing CF chassis into GTE?

Lexus' LFA has a carbon chassis, and that car is basically complete, this could be another reason allowing carbon chassis cars. I heard McLaren said they won't be back to LM with a factory effort unless they can compete for the overall victory. That doesn't negate them having customers using the MP4 in GTE though.

[hondafan37]

Mc Laren GTE?
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-12999.html

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Mc Laren GTE?
http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-12999.html

Some said here (before that article) that seemed the most probably GTE conversion coming , waiting for 27 of september to refresh a little more GTE.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by urdragon

Some said here that's the most probably GTE conversion coming, waiting for 27 of september to refresh a little more GTE.

Do you mean a GTE conversion kit for the GT3?
Thats even better! Much more cost effective.

[urdragon]

Originally Posted by Articus

Do you mean a GTE conversion kit for the GT3?
Thats even better! Much more cost effective.

Hehehe, a Road Mac conversion I meant, that may be incorrect words by me, cause I suppose they use the same chasis in Racing cars, But there is the safety cage... But I've no idea, i was guessing.

[tux]

GTE should just adopt GT3+ rules if BMW & Mclaren use their GT3s as base cars.

Manufacturers use their GT3 car, just add more aero, more power, less BOP, allow modifications for reliability and development of the car over the season.

That way it makes it so much cheaper for spare parts, cheaper for teams to move into ACO GT racing, more manufactures and variety of cars in ACO GT racing and much less R&D costs for manufactures since they don't have to develop two different cars.

Probably many more "issues" to work out with that system but it seems kind of logical to me.

[Maelochs]

Not sure I understand. Most GT3 cars are as fast or faster than GTE, and are Pure BOP---they are not built to a single formula. The whole idea of GTE is that all cars are built to a formula and thus should offer comparable platforms.

It would be cheaper to develop a single chassis, but if some factories use tube frames, some unibodies, some monocoques; some 3.8 liter engine and some 6.8 and some 8 liter ... and all different base weights ... that's fine for GT3 because it is all BOP, but manufacturers don't want a class which is 100 percent in the hands of the organizers.

Manufacturers, for factory cars, want to have a chance of a level playing field bound more by rules that the organizers whims. With factory pride and promotion and funding on the line, they don't want a season's investment handed to a car because a few guys in suits decided it was okay to give a car huge breaks or huge penalties.

Basically GT3 isn't a "class" in the sense of a class defined by a formula. It is a catch-all for whatever comes along. Teams building to a specific ruleset don't want that.

[Mt. Lynx]

And yet the GT3 class is a massive success worldwide.

[TF110]

That picture on the link is supposed to be the successor to the McLaren F1 (P12). Not a GTE McLaren.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Not sure I understand. Most GT3 cars are as fast or faster than GTE, and are Pure BOP---they are not built to a single formula. The whole idea of GTE is that all cars are built to a formula and thus should offer comparable platforms.

It would be cheaper to develop a single chassis, but if some factories use tube frames, some unibodies, some monocoques; some 3.8 liter engine and some 6.8 and some 8 liter ... and all different base weights ... that's fine for GT3 because it is all BOP, but manufacturers don't want a class which is 100 percent in the hands of the organizers.

Manufacturers, for factory cars, want to have a chance of a level playing field bound more by rules that the organizers whims. With factory pride and promotion and funding on the line, they don't want a season's investment handed to a car because a few guys in suits decided it was okay to give a car huge breaks or huge penalties.

Basically GT3 isn't a "class" in the sense of a class defined by a formula. It is a catch-all for whatever comes along. Teams building to a specific ruleset don't want that.

But GTE isn't the class you describe anymore... Look at how rotten a season Porsche would have had if they hadn't gotten the mid-season waiver for the new wing and the bigger splitter! That's pure-BoP and entirely dependend on the good will of the organizers.

Or the restrictor breaks on the Aston Martins, 56 Waivers on the Corvette, non-series-Transaxle on the BMW...

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

But GTE isn't the class you describe anymore... Look at how rotten a season Porsche would have had if they hadn't gotten the mid-season waiver for the new wing and the bigger splitter! That's pure-BoP and entirely dependend on the good will of the organizers.

Or the restrictor breaks on the Aston Martins, 56 Waivers on the Corvette, non-series-Transaxle on the BMW...

ACO is stuck between a rock and a hard place. No sane person turns down a manufacturer in this type of racing. Whereas in F1 they governing body regularly upsets the teams with penalties and tech reg clarifications and banning certain devices etc the ACO cannot afford to be so brash. Or else everyone just leaves.

I would not know how to handle it any better than ACO. If they had stuck with the rules we would be looking a Porsche only class of the 2011 spec cars because the Ferrari is too wide (for the 2010/11) regs and Vette, Aston, BMW, Viper all have waivers to the regulations.

Suddenly you do not have a class but Porsche Supercup instead.

WEC is like the kid that has no friends and lacks self-esteem so he'll practically bend over backwards trying to fit in. He won't offend anyone.

F1 is the opposite. Everyone wants to be friends with F1. Even after F1 beats and scolds, fines, bans etc.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by tux

GTE should just adopt GT3+ rules if BMW & Mclaren use their GT3s as base cars

No , GTE doesnt need any GT3 rules , perhaps GT3 could open their rules up !!!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Articus

ACO is stuck between a rock and a hard place. No sane person turns down a manufacturer in this type of racing. Whereas in F1 they governing body regularly upsets the teams with penalties and tech reg clarifications and banning certain devices etc the ACO cannot afford to be so brash. Or else everyone just leaves.

I would not know how to handle it any better than ACO. If they had stuck with the rules we would be looking a Porsche only class of the 2011 spec cars because the Ferrari is too wide (for the 2010/11) regs and Vette, Aston, BMW, Viper all have waivers to the regulations.

Suddenly you do not have a class but Porsche Supercup instead.

I appreciate all of that, but what galls me is the arrogance and the pretension that this is still a development driven class that is somehow on an entirely different technological plane than all other GT-racing, when they so clearly have turned the rulebook into Swiss Cheese and deviced a system under which all major manufacturers are basicaly guaranteed to win a couple of races a year.

If don't mind doing it that way, but if you do then at least be honest about it!

No , GTE doesnt need any GT3 rules , perhaps GT3 could open their rules up !!!

GT3 doesn't have rules.

Nothing is stopping e.g. Porsche from homologating the RSR as a GT3 car - well except for the price being a good bit above even the most expensive GT3s - but in theory all a GTE-manufacturer has to do to get their car into GT3 is to homologate it.

[Carbone]

No Mercedes SLS GTE planned at the moment according to Bernd Schneider (official driver AMG Mercedes).

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Carbone

No Mercedes SLS GTE planned at the moment according to Bernd Schneider (official driver AMG Mercedes).

That's a shame if true.


In other GTE news it seems that British GT3 team Mtech have acquired a 458 GTE car.

Anyone know where they will campaign it?

[KA]

Interesting- MTech have run Blancpain as well as British GT this year, but obviously a GTE 458 suggests other plans....ELMS or maybe even a GTE Am campaign in WEC if any of their customers have the budget for it? Alternatively, it could be for GT Open- I've got a vague memory they've appeared in that occasionally in the past?

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by KA

Interesting- MTech have run Blancpain as well as British GT this year, but obviously a GTE 458 suggests other plans....ELMS or maybe even a GTE Am campaign in WEC if any of their customers have the budget for it? Alternatively, it could be for GT Open- I've got a vague memory they've appeared in that occasionally in the past?

My first thought was GT Open and then the ELMS. Good to see them potentially stepping up.

[urdragon]

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-14241.html

Seems Rob Bell pointing a theorical Mclaren negotiations with the aco to adapt GTE ruleset to MP412-C.

[MitchZ06]

Old news McLaren going to GTE...

[urdragon]

Hexis results,may boost the negotiations, anyway, Mclaren should know that awaiting for the new class (2015) will leave the 12C as an slightly outdated car with four years, even that being less important within factory efforts.

[The Badger]

On RLM , Hindy said there could be as many a 3 new manufacturers in GTE next season . I assume he was talking about WEC entries , but im not sure .

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by urdragon

Hexis results,may boost the negotiations, anyway, Mclaren should know that awaiting for the new class (2015) will leave the 12C as an slightly outdated car with four years, even that being less important within factory efforts.

The project had been green-lit regardless of Hexis' recent heroics. But they have surely put themselves into the 'favoured' position to be given a couple of cars.

I figured it might be them and United Autosports - given their owner's ambitions to run at the race.

[joeb]

If I remember correctly, want there supposed to be some kind of GT announcement during the Fuji WEC round? Did I miss it?

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by The Badger

On RLM , Hindy said there could be as many a 3 new manufacturers in GTE next season . I assume he was talking about WEC entries , but im not sure .

I think so. Otherwise BMW (Z4) wouldn't count as a 'new' manufacturer. I guess it's safe to assume it's about BMW and McLaren and possibly SRT? Can't imagine who would run Vipers in WEC though. McLaren could start as a works development effort with CRS and maybe Hexis.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

I think so. Otherwise BMW (Z4) wouldn't count as a 'new' manufacturer. I guess it's safe to assume it's about BMW and McLaren and possibly SRT? Can't imagine who would run Vipers in WEC though. McLaren could start as a works development effort with CRS and maybe Hexis.

And maybe Lexus/Toyota? Judging by the picture in the other thread.