Audi LMP1 Discussion

[gwyllion]

There are 3 movies on youtube shot by Graham Goodwin last night: http://www.youtube.com/user/DSCGRAHAM

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

According to Marshall Pruett, both the R18 and the 90X have gone for wide fronts, but not the same compound as the rears: apparently the ultra-wide fronts are a different construction, and in the region of 20mm narrower than the rears.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...he-audi-r18/P4

Marshall believes that the R18 will use one large turbo charger. I expected that a twin turbo setup as e.g. used by BMW (pointed out by knighty; see here for some pictures) would be used because it suffer less from turbo lag.

However the fact that the car only has a single exhaust pipe does suggest that only one turbo is used. The turbo lag will probably be limited because the turbo will have a variable turbine geometry.

[porsche91722]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Marshall believes that the R18 will use one large turbo charger. I expected that a twin turbo setup as e.g. used by BMW (pointed out by knighty; see here for some pictures) would be used because it suffer less from turbo lag.

However the fact that the car only has a single exhaust pipe does suggest that only one turbo is used. The turbo lag will probably be limited because the turbo will have a variable turbine geometry.

Yeah but, Vill it be ZZexy.

[chernaudi]

I think that Marshall's story overall has some merrit, but then again, the concept of Occham's Razor must be considered until there's official confirmation. Occham's Razor, by the way, is that explanations needn't be more complex than the need to be until something is actually verified.

It's logical to believe that the the roof intake is the turbocharger/engine intake. And that the ducting in the nose is for cooling either the cockpit or something in the nose of the car. And that the side pods look a lot like the 2010 R15's, and that a similar air separation concept is being used. After all, the guy who did the aero on the R18 did the R15 last year, so it seems that when put on an optimized car, that the areo is sound. Of course, Marshall points out that Audi went back and looked at the R10 and the R8 for servicing solutions, to cure the issues that the R15's packaging caused at times in the past. Such ducting solutions would seem counter-intuitive to those goals of user friendliness and ease of maintaince.

I believe that the small NACA duct is for alternator cooling--the R15 had a similar device last year.

I'm also a bit surprised that Audi has stuck with a front diffuser made mostly out of machined aluminum. At PLM, those things snapped off and broke the front suspension and broke the floor off the mountings on the tub. Hopefully, the shorter and stouter stays and it being a multi-piece item will cut down on those failures.

Also surprised to hear about windsheid distoriton, due to the curved windscreen. Surprised that Audi didn't use optically flat panels like Peugeot did. Also, did the Bentley have similar issues with it's curved windscreen?

[TF110]

Couldn't it be a twin turbo set-up? Something like road cars run, like the MKIV Supra? Sequential turbo's aligned? Wouldn't that save on packaging space and allow for a 2 turbo setup?

[chernaudi]

No one knows--no photos of the engine and such exist.

[TF110]

I realize that, I was just putting an example of such a turbo system in play, just my way of speculating.

[chernaudi]

It could be any of these arrgements:

90deg V6 with a single VTG turbo

90deg V6 with twin VTG turbos

120 deg variants of those themes.

And if it's a 90deg V6, will it use a split journal crank, like the R8 LMS' engine, or will it be an uneven fire engine, with vibrations about as bad if not maybe worse than a flat-crank V8? Bartezky isn't a big fan of V6s, but Pruett's article says that studies within Audi AG and Audi Sport convinced him to adopt the V6.

But then again, a diesel V6 isn't expected to rev high enough for any vibrations to cause issues. The Audi R8's V8 was a flat crank engine, but it only reved at most to 7000 rpm on most occasions--too low for vibrations to be a big issue, as well as being fully stress mounted.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by TF110

Couldn't it be a twin turbo set-up? Something like road cars run, like the MKIV Supra? Sequential turbo's aligned? Wouldn't that save on packaging space and allow for a 2 turbo setup?

Twin-turbo or twin-sequential turbo on a 3.7 diesel engine will only be needed for road car type reasons, principally transient response during pull-away/launch from a stand-still, otherwise when you put your foot down there can be something like a 2 second delay untill any boost pressure builds up, which is considered un-drivable for a road car......but for a race-diesel, the revs will probably never drop below about 1500-2000rpm, therefore the engine will always be on-boost and therefore drivable........thee new generations of LMP1 engines are around the 550bhp region, so I dare say that Garret will supply Audi a turbo similar to that what Mazda use, I think all of Garrets race turbos for WRC and Le-Mans type cars are based on the TR-30R, which Audi have been using ever since the 3.6L gasoline R8 and on the V10 & V12 diesels (pug too), say each bank was rated to say 350bhp, which really is not pushing this turbo whatsoever as its rated to 550bhp and more when used all by itself, you could probably argue that its certainly going to be stretched as a single item, but the GVT mechanism should greatly assist a wider operating envelope....see these links

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...i_Peugeot.html

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...s/Le_mans.html

http://www.owendevelopments.co.uk/pr...Id=21&subId=-1

.

[Félix]

Concerning the turbo inside the V, what is the smallest V angle this is achievable with? 90°?

Are the COG height benefits coming from a wider V upset by any engine performance/design limitations? Apart from airflow concerns around a wider engine in the sidepods, is there anything keeping Audi (or Peugeot) from going to a 120° or even 135° V angle?

And finally, do the exhaust primaries have to be of exactly equal length before connecting to the turbo(s) in a within-the-V layout like the one on the BMW pictures? Is it something hard to achieve?

[knighty]

Originally Posted by Félix

Concerning the turbo inside the V, what is the smallest V angle this is achievable with? 90°?

Are the COG height benefits coming from a wider V upset by any engine performance/design limitations? Apart from airflow concerns around a wider engine in the sidepods, is there anything keeping Audi (or Peugeot) from going to a 120° or even 135° V angle?

And finally, do the exhaust primaries have to be of exactly equal length before connecting to the turbo(s) in a within-the-V layout like the one on the BMW pictures? Is it something hard to achieve?

good questions, untill I see an engine image we are all guessing, but I know the rear of an LMP tub does actually favour a wide angle engine, hence more narrow engines need side mounted A-frames (Judd) whereas the audi and pug engines are fully stressed. I think the pug V12 was around 100 degrees, audi V10 & 12 was 90 deg......... I would also imagine having a split-pin main bearing crank is not ideal as this will cause massive stress raisers due to very very high cylinder pressures, also the TR30R turbo is not small, considering all that lot it really wouldnt surprise me to see a 120 degree V6 with a simple 3-main bearing crank, as I think its considered perfectly balanced in terms of primary and secondary forces, I'm sure there is some force vector diagrams out there somewhere.

[The Badger]

I think , judgeing by their past liveries , they should leave the car black with white lettering . Everybody raved at the black Pescarolo test machine . The livery of the factory Audis over the past few years was abysmal , and that livery last year was just slightly better .

Could anyone do a photoshop of the R18 in old Audi colors , white, beige, brown and red ..... like their old IMSA colors in the pic below .

http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...07-16-0004.jpg

[EverOne]

Last year Livery was horrible, i prefer the Corporative R10 livery!

[gucom]

I think this is the most menacing-looking race car in quite some time, in this "livery"... and I quite like that about it! Wouldn't mind if they kept it as is...

[jp_olifer]

Some quick render of how it may look with the full livery... with some inspiration from Badger.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by jp_olifer

Some quick render of how it may look with the full livery... with some inspiration from Badger.

Nice work!

[92scotland]

Originally Posted by jp_olifer

Some quick render of how it may look with the full livery... with some inspiration from Badger.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

I didn't think I would like it when Badger suggested the idea but now I'm a rather big fan. Send it to Audi now and tell them they have no say in the question!

[Gingers4Justice]

I'd like them to coat the shark fin with invisibility paint to cover the ugly thing up.

Sadly, I think even that's beyong the guys at Audi.

I'd like a traditional silver Audi, each with different coloured fins.

[gwyllion]

FYI http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2010/1...rary-lmp-tech/

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by jp_olifer

Some quick render of how it may look with the full livery... with some inspiration from Badger.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink

Very cool, I like that quite a lot better than I would have thought. Nice work!

[Félix]

My take on the R18 in 2010 livery (since everyone seems to like it). With the fin in yellow .

[knighty]

that looks the nuts, nice effort......although I have to admit Audi properly scuppered my & Tim the greys sherlock holmes like deduction that the R18 was going to be silver with red stripes......bloody black, what the hell are they playing at!!!!!.....but I must admit it looks great, my single seater was black and I loved it, bit like the new Lotus-Renault JPS livery, does it for me in a big way!!.......but as an aside - we did get the tyre colour spot on!!!!.......the race is on for the engine image!!!

[porsche91722]

If recent history is anything to go by, in 2006 the R10 raced in predominantly silver livery, with each successive year getting a bit more red added, and the same with the R15's.

[porsche91722]

Recent interview with Ulrich Baretsky, from PLM this year. He doesn't give to much away on the R18.
Audi's philosophy on their race engine power (4.50 to 5.30) is interesting, and confirms what most of us already assume.
He touches on their future plans, which are also quite intriguing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d41vE...layer_embedded

[Martin90]

Originally Posted by Félix

My take on the R18 in 2010 livery (since everyone seems to like it). With the fin in yellow .

Woah brilliant job! I'd love to see that racing around.