Grand-Am 2011 Discussion

[Danske]

Originally Posted by kurski

Why this year, Krohn Racing not driven throughout the Grand AM Rolex series?...(drove full season in 2009, this year one race.)

Krohn and Lola sued each other, if you missed that. While the court basically dismissed everything and didn't dissolve the partnership, it's not surprising that Krohn isn't racing the Lola this year. They may officially broken up but I didn't see that because it wouldn't be that newsworthy after the lawsuits.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by Danske

Krohn and Lola sued each other, if you missed that. While the court basically dismissed everything and didn't dissolve the partnership, it's not surprising that Krohn isn't racing the Lola this year. They may officially broken up but I didn't see that because it wouldn't be that newsworthy after the lawsuits.

That's something that sliped pass me... Didnt know that went down. The current DP cars are ok looking, but I thought the Lola was a bit better looking. I tried to imagine the Lola with out Krohn's Racing green livery.

Can anybody tell me what happen to Crowford? I like there old body style (Crawford DP03). Then they made a new one, and after that, seems like they fallen off the earth.

[Jonerz]

That is what the Lola would look like without the Krohn green. The Proto-Auto Lola sure managed to look different from the Riley and Dallara, of course the Multimatic it is based on managed to make itself look different. That said, when the class debuted, between Fabcar, Multimatic, Doran, Crawford and Picchio the cars really did look different. At least compared to today where, other than the snout I believe the Dallara looks the same as the Riley. Then again, the Coyote looks somewhat different than the other two remaining cars on the grid... but that is what we call some serious convoluted thinking.

The DP03 was updated with the new bodywork starting in 2008(?) and Gentleman Jack sponsored an effort with a Crawford/Childress mix-up. Apparently the Jack Daniels sponsorship has gone away from Childress and so has the DP program. Thus the Crawford sits idle. I guess it was swept away by the Riley like everyone else. If it weren't for Pratt & Miller (Coyote) and Dallara's interest in selling cars (hence the Doran rebodied as a Dallara) there would be two fewer active DP manufacturers and a pure Riley parade.

Hopefully the Coyote chassis will be more appealing with the "DPG3" cars that debut at the Rolex 24 next year because of Pratt & Miller's involvement with Spirit of Daytona, and I think the Dallara will be attractive because they have a winning reputation and as we've seen their current car seems to be competitive with the Riley now.

It's all made more confusing to me because of how Grand-Am does their performance balancing. You'd think that one car wouldn't be as dominant as the Riley has been, or the Crawford would be allowed to be competitive enough that it doesn't virtually go extinct. Perhaps Riley's was just an advantage of having built more cars and supplied the 800 lb. gorilla in the series. Chicken and the egg?

Chris

[Speed-King]

A first pic of the GA-GT-Ferrari has surfaced: http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scude...o_circuit.aspx

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

A first pic of the GA-GT-Ferrari has surfaced: http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scude...o_circuit.aspx

Other than the rear wing a great looking car.

[J.C.]

What team(s) are in line to race the 458?

[Speed-King]

Just rumors so far, but I've heard the following:

Risi
Waltrip
Cheever
and a new team with an all female driver lineup, whose name I can't remember right now.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the teams were ultimately completely different from the ones just mentioned.

On another thought: Wouldn't the GA-Ferrari be the perfect addition to ALMS GTC? Or next years LMS for that matter?

[broadrun96]

Is it a just GA chassis though? Looks like it's marketed as the 458 GA-GT or is that just the name for the specific version of the GT3 build?

[Speed-King]

The tech is largely based on the GT3 from what I understand, but the main difference is probably the different rollcage on the GA chassis which will make it really difficult to swap chassis between GA and Euro GT3.

[Jonerz]

And I believe certain "cooling ducts" won't appear on the GA-GT car, which has nothing to do with trick aerodynamics that don't exist on the GT3 version.

I like the car, and I'd kill for it (and the GA Porsche) to be welcomed (back) into GTC. Not bloody likely, unfortunately.

Chris

[Speed-King]

No more mandatory pit stops in Grand Am:

http://www.grand-am.com/assets/Techn...in_2011101.pdf

Makes things a little more straight forward, I like it.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

No more mandatory pit stops in Grand Am:

http://www.grand-am.com/assets/Techn...in_2011101.pdf

Makes things a little more straight forward, I like it.

Other than sprint races (30 min, 1 hour ect) I have always been against mandatory pit stops no matter the series, and in addition to what you say it should also make the strategy element of the races slightly more exciting.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

No more mandatory pit stops in Grand Am:

http://www.grand-am.com/assets/Techn...in_2011101.pdf

Makes things a little more straight forward, I like it.

I agree, it makes the races more about, well racing.

By the way, there is a GA race this weekend at the club track in New Jersey.

[Jonerz]

Yeah, that rule was a bad gimmick. Glad to see it gone. Rolex Series is really turning around, and I'm quite excited by it.

Chris

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

Yeah, that rule was a bad gimmick. Glad to see it gone.

Well, not quite. They only found a different, more elegant, means to the same end.

That pit stop rule was originally introduced to prevent teams from doing a whole race on one stop and thus turning the races into fuel mileage contests.
Now earlier this year, GA decided to shake up things by introducing smaller fuel tanks across the board, which means that even without the 45 minute rule it is no longer possible to do a race with one stop. Except perhaps for the 2hour race at the Glen...

Rolex Series is really turning around

Yeah, Bledsoe seems to know what he's doing...

[Canada ALMS fan]

Next up: Get rid of tube frame "GT" cars and the DP's. Other than that great series. Scares me this might be our only option in the future, with all the contact, Scott Pruett, red neck cars, etc.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Sorry, but is it okay to enjoy both series??? Both series have their own positive and negative properties, I could bash the ALMS for GTC cars as much as I can bash tube framed GT cars, and I can bash LMPC cars as much as DP cars.

At the same time, I can enjoy late race battles with good, hard racing like Homestead, VIR and Laguna (DP) and Watkins Glen, Road America (GT) as much as I can enjoy strategy filled racing with fast, breathtaking cars in the ALMS this year.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I watch both as an aficionado of racing, I just don't like a lot of the cars in GA (nor the challenge cars in ALMS) or the fact that there are 2 series diluting what could be one great series. The cars in the ALMS are aspirational beauties. Listening to tug boat tube framed Camaros and inverted bathtub DPs just ain't the same. The NASCAR link rubs me the wrong way too. I am a technology snob when it comes to racing.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

A first pic of the GA-GT-Ferrari has surfaced: http://www.ferrari.com/English/Scude...o_circuit.aspx

http://jalopnik.com/5823080/ferrari-...merican-racing

[rich07]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Sorry, but is it okay to enjoy both series???

Not on this forum, didnt you read the rules? (I jest)

[Jonerz]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

Oh, don't get me wrong, I watch both as an aficionado of racing, I just don't like a lot of the cars in GA (nor the challenge cars in ALMS) or the fact that there are 2 series diluting what could be one great series. The cars in the ALMS are aspirational beauties. Listening to tug boat tube framed Camaros and inverted bathtub DPs just ain't the same. The NASCAR link rubs me the wrong way too. I am a technology snob when it comes to racing.

I too am a technology snob when it comes to racing, particularly sports car racing. I also dislike a few things about Grand-Am. I yo-yo on tube-framed GT cars, I like that they can keep costs down and enable smaller manufacturers (both auto and cottage-industry types) to mass-produce race cars for competition because of their cost-effectiveness and ability to re-body. That said, if I see a Mazda RX-8 or BMW M3 racing, I'd prefer if they actually were as advertised, i.e. unibody cars actually based on the road car. I can't have both, and I don't mind the balance.

The tie to NASCAR certainly irks me as well, and I can't always put my finger on it. Often it seems to me that NASCAR wants to dictate what racing is in America, which is dangerous considering they are an organization whose rule-making and ideologies towards racing often clash with my own personal ideas. That said, Grand-Am is remarkably healthy under their control and they are doing a reasonable amount of work in trying to promote a non-oval-based form of racing. Whether Grand-Am is merely a weapon in NASCAR's arsenal to control all American racing and try to dictate to the market what is what, or perhaps maintain the Sprint Cup series' image as America's pinnacle is often debated in my mind.

With new DPs coming it doesn't bother me that they remain tube-framed, they will be better looking (and the grid will be diversified, both are my hopes anyways), and with smaller displacement, turbocharged motors coming it means they aren't completely ignoring the real world and the desires of auto manufacturers, as you mustn't if you want to be a main stream (read: successful) sports car racing series. (I would like to see a mix of engine types, and that is perhaps where the rumored 2014 "Group C"-ish ACO regs look a lot better than the DPG3 cars.) I'm also encouraged by their management. They seem to be interested in supporting their teams, as has become their calling card, but at the same time it seems they are responding to fans concerns. Also, it seems they are very much(publicly) on the offensive to try and satisfy both. The leadership seems to be very sensible and quite honest. (Or at least that is the impression I get from reading and hearing from those who have interacted with them. Them being Bledsoe, Spitzer and the like.)

I don't know how I feel about having a split in sports car endurance racing in America. Clearly Grand-Am initially tried to differentiate itself from the ALMS by trying to attract a new and different audience with strange rules, and vastly different cars. Now however, it seems (with the addition of 'GT3-sourced' cars and DPG3) they are going for traditional sports car racing fans as they never have before, which is dangerous. SCCA Trans-Am and IMSA GT were able to co-exist through the 70s and 80s and be remarkably healthy, but the products were different enough to co-exist, and I think that was key.

The coming years will be very interesting. How much more traditional (and therefore better, in my opinion) will Grand-Am get? How will manufacturers vote to spend their money in America? ALMS, WEC, or Grand-Am (or elsewhere)? If we lose the ALMS and the WEC fails to make an impact at least on the level of the ALMS (peak) in terms of public interest, I'd certainly hope that Grand-Am will exist as a viable, interesting, exciting and relevant alternative to the failed ACO sports car racing.

Ideally, I'd like to see both series flourish, but clearly these are tough times and for many of us it doesn't seem likely that both will.

Chris

[Canada ALMS fan]

^Jonerz, neither series is very healthy right now. How they evolve to remain viable is the question no one has answers to and why many of us are genuinely concerned. Grand Am appears to be making efforts to welcome new manufacturers but having a rules set that is not compatible with racing anywhere else on the planet certainly isn't helpful. I feel ALMS made a potentially fatal error taking the short term cash from Porsche to keep GT Challenge closed to other marques - forcing Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, etc to look to GA for GT3(ish) level product placement. I have no interest in an ALMS that is "spec" and fear without the ACO affiliation that is where it will drift.
Neither series appears to be on a path to have any "prototype" product that interests me. If Indycar can gain traction with various engines and aero packages they may win over a bunch of techno-geek fans disgruntled with the path US sportscar racing is taking.
Is it too much to ask for F1, sportcars, and Indycar to all be healthy at the same time? They are cyclical but the overall trend is down as a whole. At the end of the day I don't care who controls any series so long as they are fielding a great product on the track and the cars themselves are cool. It would be nice to dee Daytona, Sebring, Laguna Seca, and Petit Le Mans all in one series.

[Jonerz]

Agreed on that last bit, man. And I most certainly do realize that neither is very healthy at the moment.

Between IndyCar, ALMS and Grand-Am there are more problems than there are legs to stand. However there are aspects of each series that are encouraging, I was simply stating my general feelings towards Grand-Am and that they are doing a lot to encourage me, it seems like they are listening to traditional sports car fans, "techno-geeks" even. But obviously I am concerned, I am very concerned.

There is the prediction Hindy has made more than a few times, that in the future there will be two schools of racing. Spec "entertainment"-focused racing like F1, DTM, Aus V8s, NASCAR, and there will be relevant racing a la current ACO-rules racing. While still being very conservative in their approach, I get the impression Grand-Am have looked at the last ten years and seen that they can't sell sports car racing to its target market (us and the less hardcore who buy Porsches and race tickets and the like) if it is anything but forward thinking, technologically focused and relevant.

Perhaps I am too much of an optimist, but that is the way I am reading things on the Grand-Am side. And like I tried to illustrate in my post above, I do have some distrust towards a NASCAR-sanctioned series and if the ALMS doesn't exist to keep them honest, will Grand-Am be free to go down the spec-route. We agree on the major points, as far as I can tell.

Chris

[joeb]

Originally Posted by HJJ

http://jalopnik.com/5823080/ferrari-...merican-racing

That was funny

Oh, mi scusi, signore, but — how you say — rubbin' is racin'

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

The coming years will be very interesting. How much more traditional (and therefore better, in my opinion) will Grand-Am get? How will manufacturers vote to spend their money in America? ALMS, WEC, or Grand-Am (or elsewhere)? If we lose the ALMS and the WEC fails to make an impact at least on the level of the ALMS (peak) in terms of public interest, I'd certainly hope that Grand-Am will exist as a viable, interesting, exciting and relevant alternative to the failed ACO sports car racing.

Ideally, I'd like to see both series flourish, but clearly these are tough times and for many of us it doesn't seem likely that both will.

Chris

I'm yet to be convinced GA exists for any other reason but to run the ALMS out of business, leaving the path clear for NASCAR.*

If the ALMS did end, the best long term hope would be Daytona becoming part of the WEC, in the 80's that event drew far more attention in Europe than Sebring.

*Not that NASCAR couldn't flourish alongside the ALMS, nor is the ALMS making the best of the cards they've been dealt.