Audi LMP1 Discussion

[hcl123]

These exhaust outlets do however appear to be difficult to clearly spot on the Monza pictures that have been released so far. This is probably due to the fact that the exhaust outlets exhibit a relatively low height.

Watching the pictures and videos again, its not only those exhaust outlets that are difficult to spot, the all trailing edge of the end of engine cover doesn't seem to present that curves... are flat... also the rear fenders blow diffusers are also different from that picture thats seems to be a CAD rendering as Mulsanescorner points out...

If its from Audi origin lol... divest attention lol...

The outlet on the left-hand side of the engine cover can also be spotted on both cars that ran at Silverstone. It's difficult to spot as it is located in the black-colored portion of the engine cover:

Could be... but i can't spot anything. OTOH the exits ( there are 2 more outlets) more to the front on top of engine cover, most likely from cockpit seems quite visible... ok are on a white part... but then, if not exhaust, and if not cockpit, and if radiator outlet diffusers are in the back, in the rear and merge with rear fender diffusers, what for is that opening (and is wide an up enough to be easily spotted in Monza pictures) ?

[MyNameIsNigel]

This is the "best" picture available so far and I believe that the particular shape of the trailing edge of the rear bodywork is quite visible:


As regards the size of the exhaust outlets, you may recall that last year's solution used by Audi consisted of elongated outlets opening at the base of the rear wheel wells. I would not be surprised to see similar elongated, relatively flat exhaust outlets extending transversally to the longitudinal axis of the car.

[hcl123]

hummm could be... for the rear fender diffusers. OTOH



The supposed "exhaust outlets" are not there... in that CAD they are not part of rear fender diffusors, they are clearly pulled back from the trailing edge end . Unless now they exit 'inside' the rear fenders diffusing box, they are not there.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by hcl123

hummm could be... for the rear fender diffusers. OTOH



The supposed "exhaust outlets" are not there... in that CAD they are not part of rear fender diffusors, they are clearly pulled back from the trailing edge end . Unless now they exit 'inside' the rear fenders diffusing box, they are not there.

As the exhaust outlets have to be "visible when seen from above or the side" it is highly unlikely that they are located inside the rear fender areas (whether directly within the wheel wells or in the volume behind the rear wheels).

I do believe that the CAD shot released by Audi does partly reveal where the exhaust outlets are located (yellow arrow), i.e. 300 mm upstream of the trailing edge of the rear diffuser where the bodywork is lowered to meet that trailing edge.

[hcl123]

From that small image you provided with a complete rear view, doesn't seem to be there anything of exhaust... if there is, they are real tiny outlets, and well dissimulated, much more than that CAD rendering suggests. (perhaps Audi is attending ppl complaining about engine "noise" .. err... sound lol... tiny outlets accelerates flow and makes more sound... like a whistle lol)

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

The purpose/function of this outlet is still unclear to me, but this is likely not an exhaust outlet. This outlet (which is only present on the left side of the engine cover) can also be spotted on the sprint version:

(picture of sprint version taken at the Geneva Motorshow)

The exhaust outlets do appear to have been moved to the lowest portion of the engine cover (yellow arrow), upstream of the trailing edge portion of the engine cover where it meets the surface of the rear diffuser:


These exhaust outlets do however appear to be difficult to clearly spot on the Monza pictures that have been released so far. This is probably due to the fact that the exhaust outlets exhibit a relatively low height.

It is interesting how the leading edge of the end plate is turned to the centerline of the car in the bottom photo. It seems it would increase stability for the rear end but might also cause drag. Audi has been doing this for many years though. I'll have to look up a mid-2000's photo where it was noticeable in the photo.

[deltawing]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

It is interesting how the leading edge of the end plate is turned to the centerline of the car in the bottom photo. It seems it would increase stability for the rear end but might also cause drag. Audi has been doing this for many years though. I'll have to look up a mid-2000's photo where it was noticeable in the photo.

Cyber, that is an optical illusion, because the fender goes from max width in that area to slightly narrower at the back, therefore it makes the wing plate look like it is facing the center line of that car with its leading edge. But in reality is not, and not because I have better eyes than you, just the rules say the end plate has to be parallel to the center line above certain height (pretty much immediately above the fender).

[chernaudi]

This photo suggest that the R18's flap in the nose might have some scope for adjustment--note the silver piece in the nose above the flap that looks like it's got a track cut in it:

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...64034280_n.jpg

[CyberMotor]

Originally Posted by deltawing

Cyber, that is an optical illusion, because the fender goes from max width in that area to slightly narrower at the back, therefore it makes the wing plate look like it is facing the center line of that car with its leading edge. But in reality is not, and not because I have better eyes than you, just the rules say the end plate has to be parallel to the center line above certain height (pretty much immediately above the fender).

Deltawing, I may be mistaken about the angle of the end plate but in this photo from 2002 that I took, it appears to be that the end plate is angled. Many years have passed, many rules and regulations have passed, but I did see the angled end-plate once, so, I think it may happen again,
unless, as you suggest, it is an optical illusion.

In the photo supplied, the angle is opposite of the midline.

[chernaudi]

Audi and Toyota ran angled outer endplates last year, but I do have to say that it makes little sense to angle the main endplate.

That does sort of mess up running the wing to it's maximum width across it's entire planes.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi and Toyota ran angled outer endplates last year, but I do have to say that it makes little sense to angle the main endplate.

That does sort of mess up running the wing to it's maximum width across it's entire planes.

Depends on where and how it's angled, maybe trading off a bit of a mess-up to the wing for better flow above the exit of the rear diffuser is worth it?

[TF110]

Toyota ran S-shaped endplates. Not sure how angled they were.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Toyota ran S-shaped endplates. Not sure how angled they were.

The S-shaped profile was actually imparted to the wheel arch extensions on the outside of the rear wing end plates, which were basically straight so far I can see.

late 2012/early 2013 high-downforce spec:

2013 low-drag spec:


In the case of the 2013-spec Audi R18, the rear wing end plates were straight and the wheel are extensions on the outside were angled with respect to the longitudinal axis of the car:


In its current sprint or LM version, the rear wing end plates of the Audi R18 are perfectly straight. This is basically required by the rules (cf. Article 3.6.2 d4):

End plates
(...)
The surfaces shall be flat and parallel to the vertical plane passing through the longitudinal centre line of the car.

[MyNameIsNigel]

High-definition video by 19Bozzy92 is available. Thanks to Julien

Some better shots do reveal the outlets on top of the flat portion of the engine cover, upstream of the trailing edge of the rear diffuser:

[manthey]

they tested also with wet track (with tank trucks) and r18 was completely flat-out as on dry also in that condition 'till variante della Roggia
so amazing downforce also with low-drag pack

[gustavobamba]

The car looks very very fast :-)

It seems that this year we will have some increase in terms of top speed in Le Mans.

[hcl123]

@ MyNameIsNigel

Yes great video, the exhaust outlets seems to be on that flat part of the engine cover very near trailing edge, and its more dissimulated than in the CAD rendering, its not round or oval, its more rectangular.

@ manthey

You mean they wetted the track on purpose with water tanks to test ?... seems covering all bases. Any image or video ?

@ gustavobamba

Yes i always suspected faster times. lets see.

Its hard to tell on dry ( same tires, dry track, 2013 test with 2013 tub)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOFaG...OUGGa2k5HF84v0

(long tail 2013 test on kind of wet, before Le Mans)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKIc1BcWDlM

but definitely the car seems faster than 2013, specially on corners.

Not only that, definitely seems to me there is a different relation between gearboxes changes, are longer more spaced after slower corners than in Sebring test ( supposedly the setup of Silverstone)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIDsi-M5B28

So maybe not only an "extensive" aero package review ( quite *visible*)... but also a engine and gearbox review... even the sound of the engine is a little bit different ( can be because of different exhaust, but different gearbox relations usually mean different engine mapping and or engine tuning if not overhaul).

Leads to ask... was the Silverstone model kind of a final "product" for 2014( save the minor changes even from race to race)... or what was possible to have by that time ? ( never to be seen again)

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by hcl123

Leads to ask... was the Silverstone model kind of a final "product" for 2014( save the minor changes even from race to race)... or what was possible to have by that time ? ( never to be seen again)

Silverstone is the HDF package, of course things like the gear ratios and top speed will be different in this low DF setup, otherwise they'd be getting into the limiter far to early on the Mulsanne and all that.

I suspect we'll see some minor aero changes once we hit the F1 circuits but I really can't see anything major being done, after all they had the best overall level of DF and were right on the Toyota's heels (and ahead for a bit) during the race

[David Land]

The WEC needs to race on that layout of Monza.

[gustavobamba]

Originally Posted by David Land

The WEC needs to race on that layout of Monza.

+1

[Articus]

They need to race Monza period.

[CyberMotor]

Nigel,

I think an interesting note to this discussion is that the double-end plates display an 'H', as in 'Hybrid', in the image.

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

In the case of the 2013-spec Audi R18, the rear wing end plates were straight and the wheel are extensions on the outside were angled with respect to the longitudinal axis of the car:


:

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Silverstone is the HDF package, of course things like the gear ratios and top speed will be different in this low DF setup, otherwise they'd be getting into the limiter far to early on the Mulsanne and all that.

I suspect we'll see some minor aero changes once we hit the F1 circuits but I really can't see anything major being done, after all they had the best overall level of DF and were right on the Toyota's heels (and ahead for a bit) during the race

I think even the HDF package will be different from now on... If not 'long tail' all season, i thing at least the new HDF front will be identical, most likely keeping the lateral front fenders openings.( that car already has a tremendous amount of grip on fast corners, probably "ground effect" from the front wing, don't need more down force, taller front panels in front, that reduces top speeds)

The more i see that most recent video of Monza, the faster the car seems, specially on fast corners than the 2013 edition lol...

Then there is the engine... and correspondingly the gearbox(s) ( there could be more than 1 version of gearbox) to make a complete job.... i suspect there is kind of an engine overhaul.

Both this engines for Audi and Toyota i suspect are *stroked* versions of the same 3.7L and 3.4L blocks of 2013. Different crankshafts pistons, etc, in sum all internal moving parts (what stroking an engine implies -> more displacement, less heavier, more torque/power, less revs), can already be considered an overhaul... then there are the engine heads, dry slumps, cams, mappings etc (another overhaul).

For Audi case, since they talked about an all newengine with a MGU-H... i wonder if they were not developing something real totally new in the first place, but then dropped back... A V8 !...

[chernaudi]

Sport Audi reports that both the Silverstone cars have been repaired and will be used as spare tubs for Spa.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Sport Audi reports that both the Silverstone cars have been repaired and will be used as spare tubs for Spa.

The damaged tubs have already been repaired ? I thought they had been sent back to the supplier in Italy and that cars #1 and #2 were going to be rebuilt around spare tubs.