Toyota/Rebellion Racing - Le Mans/ILMC/LMS - 2011 (merged)

[gwyllion]

Indeed. Peugeot design their suspension components right on the edge. Actually just over the edge judging from failures they had in testing and Spa. They will not be happy with some extra ballast. So it might be better to lower the weight of the petrols instead.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by knighty

I'm pleased the ACO are aboul to align everyone, after spa it was embarrasing for the LMP1 gasoline runners, they should be allowed to compete, no matter how old the car/engine.

I don't agree and don't believe the ACO should let 5 year old designs and off the shelf retail cars compete after the efforts the big factories have made to make the cars faster. Otherwise we may as well be racing historic cars and we will chase the factory efforts away as their efforts and development would be pointless. When someone properly steps up to the plate with a credible full factory effort using petrol / hybrid or an other power source then the ACO should look at the rules again.

Much as I admire the man Henri Pescarolo continues to moan about it when his car isn't even supposed to be allowed to compete with 2011 cars he really has no place to complain about the Diesels as his effort is in no way comparative to those teams

[Félix]

Originally Posted by Mal

I don't agree and don't believe the ACO should let 5 year old designs and off the shelf retail cars compete after the efforts the big factories have made to make the cars faster. Otherwise we may as well be racing historic cars and we will chase the factory efforts away as their efforts and development would be pointless. When someone properly steps up to the plate with a credible full factory effort using petrol / hybrid or an other power source then the ACO should look at the rules again.

Much as I admire the man Henri Pescarolo continues to moan about it when his car isn't even supposed to be allowed to compete with 2011 cars he really has no place to complain about the Diesels as his effort is in no way comparative to those teams

Did you see the speed differentials at Spa? To me, the petrol P1s looked like they were in a class in between DP1 and P2 - and we already have enough classes. And they were closer to P2 pace than they were to the factory P1s. And that applied equally to Henri's masterfully run "historic" as well as to the brand spanking new Rebellions.

To motivate anyone serious to come with a credible effort, you need rules that look fair - or even attractive - in the first place. It's already hard enough to get board rooms to commit to the LMP1 category, I think they should be attracted with rules just as "fair" as the ones that convinced Audi and Peugeot to run diesel P1s. I have a feeling that GT cars from Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, etc could be given a shot at the overall win if some manufacturers don't enter P1 before Audi or Peugeot pulls out...

[alexkiller8]

audi and peugeot have too much influence, hardly there will be a bop like that one month before le mans...
about rebellion, the new bodywork has been developed by lola with rebellion collaboration for exclusive usage of the team or will be available also for other lola coupe ?

[Félix]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

audi and peugeot have too much influence, hardly there will be a bop like that one month before le mans...
about rebellion, the new bodywork has been developed by lola with rebellion collaboration for exclusive usage of the team or will be available also for other lola coupe ?

There will be an adjustment, but nobody anywhere is under any illusion that it could lead to a petrol car win.

The kit was developed by Lola for Rebellion. It could be available to customers if they are willing to pay for it (including splitting the cost of tooling).

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by alexkiller8

audi and peugeot have too much influence, hardly there will be a bop like that one month before le mans...
about rebellion, the new bodywork has been developed by lola with rebellion collaboration for exclusive usage of the team or will be available also for other lola coupe ?

Rebellion only, they paid for it to be done so Lola cant sell it to anyone else.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Rebellion only, they paid for it to be done so Lola cant sell it to anyone else.

Not what this says. 5th paragraph: http://86400.fr/articles/154-les-nou...ion-en-details

[MitchZ06]

Be nice if I could speak and read French....

[Félix]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Be nice if I could speak and read French....

That's exactly the problem here: an interview in French with the team's PR man is ignored in favour of repeating incomplete preliminary info. I specified 5th paragraph since it's probably understandable enough after going through the translator of your choice.

"Toutefois, l'équipe qui en fera la demande, pourra acheter ces pièces, ce qui divisera d'autant les frais d'investissements dans les outillages assumés par Rebellion."
=
"Nevertheless, if it asks for it, a team will be able to buy the new parts, further dividing the investment for tooling made by Rebellion."

[MitchZ06]

Thanks for the translation, thats certainly different from what I've been told.

[R4z3rw33n]

Lola seems to be shoring up with Toyota. Birrane has confirmed the production of 4x chassis for the 2012 ILMC season.

See here: http://www.lemans.org/fr/courses/int...aine_3702.html

[mackteck]

from lola twitter
"Who's got Le Mans fever? Anyone who is going and would like a Lola Media Guide and Lola flag e-mail ssmith@lolacars.com with postal address"

Mine's on the way

[Yakuncha]

Originally Posted by R4z3rw33n

Lola seems to be shoring up with Toyota. Birrane has confirmed the production of 4x chassis for the 2012 ILMC season.

See here: http://www.lemans.org/fr/courses/intercontinental-le-mans-cup/actualites/Exclusif-quatre-Lola−Toyota-en-ILMC-l-annee-prochaine_3702.html

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/inter...ear-_3706.html

[JAG]

John Dagys

Article says that Lola is producing P1 cars exclusively for Toyota in 2012. - Will result in four cars for #ILMC + others for #ALMS and #LMS

Good to see Lola will be strengthened by this move.

[gustavobamba]

Well , i suspect that the 2012 Lola Rebellion Toyota will be more agressive in terms of design and engine. The link beteween this 2 company´s is getting very seriously...

[Speed-King]

Actually, I'd rather see both of them go it alone...

If Toyota were really serious about this, they'd run the programme out of Cologne on their own...

And we can't be sure that Lola will keep selling non-Toyota customer chassis when they are occupied with their Toyota deal.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Félix

Did you see the speed differentials at Spa? To me, the petrol P1s looked like they were in a class in between DP1 and P2 - and we already have enough classes. And they were closer to P2 pace than they were to the factory P1s. And that applied equally to Henri's masterfully run "historic" as well as to the brand spanking new Rebellions.

To motivate anyone serious to come with a credible effort, you need rules that look fair - or even attractive - in the first place. It's already hard enough to get board rooms to commit to the LMP1 category, I think they should be attracted with rules just as "fair" as the ones that convinced Audi and Peugeot to run diesel P1s. I have a feeling that GT cars from Porsche, Ferrari, McLaren, etc could be given a shot at the overall win if some manufacturers don't enter P1 before Audi or Peugeot pulls out...

There's a world of difference between the kind of efforts Audi and Peugeot put together, and in years gone by Group C Porsches, Mercedes and Jaguars, and customer focused GTE cars. They come with a recognisable name tag, but in reality are little different from a Lola or Zytek LMP.

History shows when GT's compete for overall wins cars quickly morph from recognisable roadcars into GT prototypes, not least because many mainstream manufactuers don't have a 911 equivalent, nevermind something like the 918.

At long last Le Mans has a clear distinction between LMP and GT, stability in both classes enables long term planning, Peugeot can compete for overall wins, Mclaren can race what they build, without going down the longtail route, to keep up with homologation specials.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Actually, I'd rather see both of them go it alone...

If Toyota were really serious about this, they'd run the programme out of Cologne on their own...

And we can't be sure that Lola will keep selling non-Toyota customer chassis when they are occupied with their Toyota deal.

Nissan where serious when they contracted Lola to build their Group C R89C.

This years toe in the water is one thing, having half a dozen or more cars on track representing Toyota, will surely be backed up by more developement, that is good for Lola's P1 program, and, you would think allows them to continue producing cost-capped P2's.

http://www.lemans.org/en/races/inter...ear-_3706.html

[MulsanneMike]

Email from Bart Hayden says....Lola owns the design and tooling and therefore can pursue other customers with this update. More later tonight.

[The Badger]

What exactly has Lola done designing a car like their off the shelf product , and then developing such a differant aero style at a later date . Does it mean that their original aero style was crap or what ?

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by The Badger

What exactly has Lola done designing a car like their off the shelf product , and then developing such a differant aero style at a later date . Does it mean that their original aero style was crap or what ?

Well the "old" aero was to the previous rules. Budgets don't always allow for constant redesigns. It would appear Rebellion's interest provided the needed funds for the upgrade to the new 2011 aero priorities.

[chernaudi]

From what I understand from this thread, Rebellion orginally paid for the redesign, but most of the IP is techincally the property of Lola Cars Ltd. That means that now Lola can sell the bodywork to anyone who asks/is willing to pay for it, though it does seem that if there are any changes from here on out, it does seem that whoever commissions it/initially pays for it may get first crack at the upgrades.

If you ask me, the Lola bodywork in the past has seemed to be a bit ALMS/LMS oriented, and not 100% what you'd want for Le Mans, but that's my opinion.

[TF110]

Question, what does rebellion have in terms of budget? And where does most the money come from? Besides sponsorship what IS rebellion? They just LMS ILMC LeMans? I ask because perhaps this Toyota/Lola/Rebellion thing could get bigger.

[chernaudi]

Rebellion is a Swiss watch maker, and the Hayden family are the actual team owners as far as I've been able to figure.

And I think, at least for now, Toyota is mainly functioning as engine supplier.

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by TF110

Question, what does rebellion have in terms of budget? And where does most the money come from? Besides sponsorship what IS rebellion? They just LMS ILMC LeMans? I ask because perhaps this Toyota/Lola/Rebellion thing could get bigger.

Think we can say Toyota involvement is more in doubt in short term with the Tsunami etc creating profits drops like this

http://automotive.speedtv.com/articl...op-77-percent/