The Porsche vs Ferrari (or Badger vs brielga) thread - Page 263

WMUCarGuy · 23 Oct 2012, 13:37 (Ref:3156490)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

Nope they wouldn't but then Risi doesn't have Ed, and Scott keeping the team down...(only one factory driver in ESM cars)

while BMW/Corveete/Porsche are all full Factory drivers....

how much Scott is hurtting ESM, was apparent at Pettit, each time the guy came into the car, the car lost places, each time he got out, the car was back to no1

I wish we could see Cosmo and van Overbeek in the car together. That'd be a championship caliber combination.

arakis · 23 Oct 2012, 14:09 (Ref:3156501)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Your jesting , class of the field my arse !!!

I dont think Ferrari have done their best here . At the minute its about even stephan across the field , cuz of BoP .....

Which, if we look at the BoP means Ferrari are the class of the field, seeing as they are held back by the BoP, and everyone else is helped by it :P

I'm trying to ascertain if you're jesting, or on mind-altering drugs

The Badger · 23 Oct 2012, 15:52 (Ref:3156547)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Excuse me , tell Paul Miller that , and the 2nd Lizards car while your at it .

Answer this Arakis , or ignore it again .

The Badger · 23 Oct 2012, 15:53 (Ref:3156549)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

Which, if we look at the BoP means Ferrari are the class of the field, seeing as they are held back by the BoP, and everyone else is helped by it :P

I'm trying to ascertain if you're jesting, or on mind-altering drugs

So , the 458 has no waivers you are saying , at all .

Oh , I thought they had , sorry .

arakis · 23 Oct 2012, 17:46 (Ref:3156596)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

So , the 458 has no waivers you are saying , at all .

Oh , I thought they had , sorry .

had last year, for the width, the rules changed this year alowing 2.05m width, which all the cars i.e. Corvette, Porsche, BMW applied to the maxium...

Regarding the paul millner, and the second FL car, simple, at least they had one full factory crew.. while ESM had only one out of three drivers be from the factory.. While Johanes is good, Scott simply sucks... Comparing the Berg, Pillet, and Long he's just plain slow...

The Badger · 23 Oct 2012, 18:45 (Ref:3156632)

Your just avoiding to answer my question .

Forget it , Im off .

DistortedSmile · 23 Oct 2012, 19:29 (Ref:3156649)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Excuse me , tell Paul Miller that , and the 2nd Lizards car while your at it .

I don't see how that's relevant, point is all competitive cars have factory drivers, yes ESM is an exception and they likely wouldn't have been competitive without their team specific BoP, but I'd also say Porsche teams (in both WEC and ALMS) would have been doomed without all the breaks they received throughout the season.
IMO the 458 was the car to have this season, it certainly proved to be superior compared to the 2012 Porsche in most instances and it's fully competitive with the more expensive Corvettes and BMWs without the need for waivers and in the hands of competent teams.

The Badger · 23 Oct 2012, 20:23 (Ref:3156675)

The superior Ferrari gets a team break ..... cuz ESM cant get their crap together to run one the way it should be run . Maybe they should try another series , more appropriate to their skills .

Right , fine , If you guys really feel thats fair , then there is not further point to discuss on this topic .

DistortedSmile · 23 Oct 2012, 20:47 (Ref:3156688)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

The superior Ferrari gets a team break ..... cuz ESM cant get their crap together to run one the way it should be run . Maybe they should try another series , more appropriate to their skills .

Right , fine , If you guys really feel thats fair , then there is not further point to discuss on this topic .

I was actually agreeing with you about ESM, please re-read what I wrote.
But you also have to consider that the Porsches also had a lot of breaks throughout the season, do you really think the 2012 RSR would be on par with the 458 without all the breaks it had? Just look at how bad they were at the beginning of the season.

Also for what it's worth this is coming from someone who generally prefers Porsche over Ferrari.

Brake dust · 23 Oct 2012, 22:01 (Ref:3156723)

Is the 991 still on track to be campaigned in 2013? Rumors are that the street 991 GT3 is very special. Sure hope so - need to take the fight to Fiat!

GT3.14 · 23 Oct 2012, 23:10 (Ref:3156746)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brake dust

Is the 991 still on track to be campaigned in 2013? Rumors are that the street 991 GT3 is very special. Sure hope so - need to take the fight to Fiat!

Who says it is special? Do you know someone at Porsche? (serious question, not being aggressive) So far, no one has driven the 991 GT3 except for the development team engineers. With all of the bad press over the electric steering assistance and the fact that the GT3 will have PDK, it is not as special as it used to be.

The Badger · 23 Oct 2012, 23:10 (Ref:3156747)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DistortedSmile

I was actually agreeing with you about ESM, please re-read what I wrote.
But you also have to consider that the Porsches also had a lot of breaks throughout the season, do you really think the 2012 RSR would be on par with the 458 without all the breaks it had? Just look at how bad they were at the beginning of the season.

Also for what it's worth this is coming from someone who generally prefers Porsche over Ferrari.

Ok ..... I have little issue with BoP ..... across the board ..... but given to a TEAM cuz they cant run it competitivily , is just wrong .

Im very aware of BoP with respect to Porsche , and would rather see none at all ..... but there is racing at stake here , and nobody wants to see anyone do a John Wayne .

Scenario : Felbermayr and Lizards employ "B" class drivers and have a crap season ..... they get a waiver of the same sort as ESM , and when Le Mans arrives , put 3 works drivers into each entry ..... what then ? I could hear the donkey crooners kicking off then !!!

Salamus · 23 Oct 2012, 23:23 (Ref:3156755)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Scenario : Felbermayr and Lizards employ "B" class drivers and have a crap season ..... they get a waiver of the same sort as ESM , and when Le Mans arrives , put 3 works drivers into each entry ..... what then ? I could hear the donkey crooners kicking off then !!!

Well then I guess ESM found a loop-hole

The Badger · 24 Oct 2012, 00:01 (Ref:3156779)

Whoever handed out this bull**** waiver , introduced this loophole .

I really hope that some teams take the **** with this .

Anyway ..... on on on .

TF110 · 24 Oct 2012, 05:41 (Ref:3156846)

I wonder what the prancing horse's advantage would be if the other cars introduced direct injection? They weren't the fastest cars, the Vettes and Aston displayed that at LeMans. This will hopefully be resolved in the near future with concerns to BOP though. If teams are set to make a car at said regulations with such and such allowed, maybe that will give us an even closer match without the need for performance breaks.

arakis · 24 Oct 2012, 09:07 (Ref:3156896)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Ok ..... I have little issue with BoP ..... across the board ..... but given to a TEAM cuz they cant run it competitivily , is just wrong .

Im very aware of BoP with respect to Porsche , and would rather see none at all ..... but there is racing at stake here , and nobody wants to see anyone do a John Wayne .

Scenario : Felbermayr and Lizards employ "B" class drivers and have a crap season ..... they get a waiver of the same sort as ESM , and when Le Mans arrives , put 3 works drivers into each entry ..... what then ? I could hear the donkey crooners kicking off then !!!

ESM got the team only BoP, for ALMS only, so nothing to do with ACO/FIA

arakis · 24 Oct 2012, 09:09 (Ref:3156897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TF110

I wonder what the prancing horse's advantage would be if the other cars introduced direct injection? They weren't the fastest cars, the Vettes and Aston displayed that at LeMans. This will hopefully be resolved in the near future with concerns to BOP though. If teams are set to make a car at said regulations with such and such allowed, maybe that will give us an even closer match without the need for performance breaks.

They (Ferrari) were running lean so they would get the 2 pitstoop less advantage, they could have gone faster but would have compromised their strategy...

MitchZ06 · 24 Oct 2012, 09:16 (Ref:3156900)

Remember when Corvette introduced DI on their debut 2009 GT2 car? Outrage from everyone else! Can't wait till they're allowed to (and Aston and Porsche and all other GTE mfgers) run DI in their cars and kill the advantage Ferrari has.

The Badger · 24 Oct 2012, 09:17 (Ref:3156901)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

ESM got the team only BoP, for ALMS only, so nothing to do with ACO/FIA

My God , are people bloody stupid or what ?

Thats exactly my point , its unfair , a team waiver , because they cant run it porperly , everyone else has to suffer .

arakis · 24 Oct 2012, 10:14 (Ref:3156920)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Remember when Corvette introduced DI on their debut 2009 GT2 car? Outrage from everyone else! Can't wait till they're allowed to (and Aston and Porsche and all other GTE mfgers) run DI in their cars and kill the advantage Ferrari has.

They introduced it on a car that is homologated with a non DFI engine, in other words they were trying to pull a fast one.. Ferrari introduced a DFI engine in the 458 and races with it... Win on sunday sell on monday, and in the spirit of Le mans...

The Badger · 24 Oct 2012, 10:17 (Ref:3156922)

Quote:

Originally Posted by arakis

in other words they were trying to pull a fast one..

Like innocence speaks .......... (Ferrari) ..... they wouldnt do that , would they !!!

arakis · 24 Oct 2012, 10:21 (Ref:3156926)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

My God , are people bloody stupid or what ?

Thats exactly my point , its unfair , a team waiver , because they cant run it porperly , everyone else has to suffer .

No one's stupid, I'm just flabbergasted that you can be so hypocritical. Your sticking to this Team only thing, like a fly to ****. It seems you have absolutely no problem with Porsche getting any help, even reinventing the BoP just for them, (adding iligal aero through BoP is a first)...

I mean seriosly, who gives a crap that ESM got a restrictor break, when they are being handed down to everyone left and right.... And no-one is complaining,since there are no other Ferraris in the ALMS....So why the heck are yo. Admit it, you're problem is that ferrari got a break in the ALMS, while you;re perfectly fine with porsche getting all the breaks and only winning the two races they did becasue of them...

arakis · 24 Oct 2012, 10:24 (Ref:3156929)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Badger

Like innocence speaks .......... (Ferrari) ..... they wouldnt do that , would they !!!

They didn't, the only incident of Ferrari BS (not counting the track stuff, only the technical) in the last 10 years in GT racing is last years Width, which really isn't BS since they applied for the waiver in the homologation form.

While Porsche has been caught with it's hand in the cookie jar. (othervise known as the cylindar slaving cheatgate...

MitchZ06 · 24 Oct 2012, 10:24 (Ref:3156931)

Lol!

ESM getting a 'team only' waiver is crap because no teams racing anywhere else got that waiver. Meanwhile every single Porsche got the adjusted BoP. Your point is invalid...

Brake dust · 24 Oct 2012, 11:18 (Ref:3156953)

Quote:

Who says it is special? Do you know someone at Porsche? (serious question, not being aggressive)

Wish I did - but don't. Just a comment made by the editor of Excellence magazine relating a 991. GT3 discussion he had with a Porsche engineer. Being a Porsche fan, my expectation is that the 991 will be a big step forward. GT racing has been fantastic - with a lot of different manufacturers - makes racing very interesting - Porsche is used to be on the top step of the podium. Porsche is all about GT racing.

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