USCC (leave your axe outside)

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Seeing as how where I live I happen to know lots of Michelin folks, some of them directly associated with the racing programs. I would be shocked if Michelin were trying to become the sole supplier of tires in TUSC or any other series for that matter. Michelin's entire ethos is that they gain knowledge through competition. They pride themselves in associating with series where there is open tire competition as not only do they learn from it, they are also able to truly show that they are better than their competitors.

Rather than lobbying for a single tire supplier, I could see them lobbying for an open tire supplier situation. Of course when talking with NASCAR about something like that they'd probably get more from talking with a brick wall.

[Danske]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

Michelin's entire ethos is that they gain knowledge through competition. They pride themselves in associating with series where there is open tire competition as not only do they learn from it, they are also able to truly show that they are better than their competitors.

Well then, we can just make out the check to Michelin for their tires in the amount of "Knowledge and Pride".

[Deleted]

If Conti wasn't demanding spec tire formula for itself, there wouldn't necessarily be one. Though I guess it's in NASCAR interests.

Anyway, the only thing I really hate about those tires is that they aren't even Continentals but rebadged Hoosiers.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If Conti wasn't demanding spec tire formula for itself, there wouldn't necessarily be one. Though I guess it's in NASCAR interests.

Anyway, the only thing I really hate about those tires is that they aren't even Continentals but rebadged Hoosiers.

I suppose the real question is what is gained by having a spec tire from the series perspective? Money comes to mind right away, but also when you are trying to run BOP having everyone on the same tire is an advantage.

[wdave0]

Originally Posted by Chiana

If Conti wasn't demanding spec tire formula for itself, there wouldn't necessarily be one. Though I guess it's in NASCAR interests.

Anyway, the only thing I really hate about those tires is that they aren't even Continentals but rebadged Hoosiers.

You'll notice they really don't race elsewhere. They bought exclusive rights to the series (and Conti Cup) and use rebadged Hoosiers (the previous GA spec tire - lest we forget who bought who), they get the cachet of racing without having to actually compete with anyone or even having to engineer or make a tire, the series gets the money, the marketing and easier BOP.

[FstrthnU]

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/im...der-of-season/
Qualifying on IMSA.com for rest of the season!

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by wdave0

You'll notice they really don't race elsewhere. They bought exclusive rights to the series (and Conti Cup) and use rebadged Hoosiers (the previous GA spec tire - lest we forget who bought who), they get the cachet of racing without having to actually compete with anyone or even having to engineer or make a tire, the series gets the money, the marketing and easier BOP.

When they went from the Pirellis to the Contis the cars were multiple seconds slower pretty much everywhere, too.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/im...der-of-season/
Qualifying on IMSA.com for rest of the season!

One wonders why this wasn't the case from the outset? But at least they're going back and adding/changing many things that many people called questionable in January.

[Danske]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/im...der-of-season/
Qualifying on IMSA.com for rest of the season!

Let us count the ways to complain about it.

[jasonjessica09]

Better late than never I guess. I hope it gets on Youtube quickly after its aired live too.

[nkoske]

Originally Posted by BullMan

One wonders why this wasn't the case from the outset? But at least they're going back and adding/changing many things that many people called questionable in January.

Well one must say that they're more responsive and a better overall package than the FIA WEC.

[Speed-King]

Maybe they've only know found (a) sponsor(s) for the qualifying broadcast?

[mimi1969]

Originally Posted by joeb

I suppose the real question is what is gained by having a spec tire from the series perspective? Money comes to mind right away, but also when you are trying to run BOP having everyone on the same tire is an advantage.

BoP is the main issue. You have the combination of several different types of cars and attempting to BoP of everyone with two or three different tires would double or triple the possible combinations. Would be so difficult to BoP with so many different tire/car options that it cannot fail that someone will come across with a major advantage. We have seen with MMPR and Level 5 what happens when a team feels they are not competitive. Open tires would also make cost increase since tires would be changing in an attempt to get an advantage over the competition forcing the teams to spend more in tersting to get a hold of the changes.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by mimi1969

BoP is the main issue. You have the combination of several different types of cars and attempting to BoP of everyone with two or three different tires would double or triple the possible combinations. Would be so difficult to BoP with so many different tire/car options that it cannot fail that someone will come across with a major advantage. We have seen with MMPR and Level 5 what happens when a team feels they are not competitive. Open tires would also make cost increase since tires would be changing in an attempt to get an advantage over the competition forcing the teams to spend more in tersting to get a hold of the changes.

Open tires would NOT do that. Michelin provides P2 teams with a single kind of tire for the season. Strangely enough, that tire is built FOR P2 cars, not another kind of car, allowing a P2 to actually utilize the chassis and engine combination instead of running around hoping they can get a long enough green run in to get heat in the POS rocks Conti provides.

[JLGarcia]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Michelin provides P2 teams with a single kind of tire for the season.

Funny then how many competitors have mentioned that not all Michelins are created equal, huh?

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by mimi1969

BoP is the main issue. You have the combination of several different types of cars and attempting to BoP of everyone with two or three different tires would double or triple the possible combinations. Would be so difficult to BoP with so many different tire/car options that it cannot fail that someone will come across with a major advantage. We have seen with MMPR and Level 5 what happens when a team feels they are not competitive. Open tires would also make cost increase since tires would be changing in an attempt to get an advantage over the competition forcing the teams to spend more in tersting to get a hold of the changes.

Control is the main issue.
Why are racing series so scared of freedom these days?
Racing is supposed to be a competition. Drivers, Mechanics, Racecar designers, pitcrews, Strategists, Tire manufacturers, Car manufacturers ALL competing against each other to see who is BEST!!!
I understand the need to limit costs, but we are fast reaching a point where the real purpose of motor racing is lost.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Racing is supposed to be a competition. Drivers, Mechanics, Racecar designers, pitcrews, Strategists, Tire manufacturers, Car manufacturers ALL competing against each other to see who is BEST!!!
I understand the need to limit costs, but we are fast reaching a point where the real purpose of motor racing is lost.

It is a business now, much more then it was, and driven I think much more by the 'make a buck' mentality then the 'win' mentality. As a business they want stable costs and returns, and spending wars to innovate or develop are what you don't want when you are looking to make profits.

[Maelochs]

On top of that, the factories need to have good results, or at least the chance for good results, to sell the costs to the accountants.

That's why BoP is such a big deal with the GT classes—no board of directors wants to invest in a series which will only show that their cars are outclassed.

It used to be that factories could afford to build cars to win races, but now cars can only be built to make money, and a company like BMW doesn't want to enter the supercar market; Aston wants to build super-luxury sports cars, not supercars; only Ferrari, Audi, and Lamborghini (and maybe Porsche) really build top-flight sports cars, and Lambo doesn't seem interested in spending the money in GTLM.

We as fans want maximum diversity but factories want maximum RoI, which means the cars have to be artificially leveled.

Competition is only between teams; the days of factories actually competing against factories in GT classes are long gone.

[BullMan]

Originally Posted by JLGarcia

Funny then how many competitors have mentioned that not all Michelins are created equal, huh?

Zero? In P1 and GTE the tires ARE different between teams. Not so in P2.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by BullMan

Zero? In P1 and GTE the tires ARE different between teams. Not so in P2.

Not entirely true. Michelin had never really put a ton of work into P2 spec tires as the size and construction was so specific to P2 only...

Now that some of that has merged with P1, it's not so bad, and they've finally spent some money in development. Part of the issue is that to have a full program with Michelin is difficult as there are only so many engineers to go around, and you have to have an extensive history as a team.

Dunlop don't require that. Pirelli don't require that nor doesn anyone else. BUT, you are buying a customer tire. Not a CUSTOM tire.

Point is, it's far easier to snag a set of Dunlops than to buy a set of Michelins.

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by skycafe

It is a business now, much more then it was, and driven I think much more by the 'make a buck' mentality then the 'win' mentality. As a business they want stable costs and returns, and spending wars to innovate or develop are what you don't want when you are looking to make profits.

Stability of cost is important. The problem is, fans will lose interest due to a lack of any new innovations and because the outcome of the events are more a product of series BOP and politics/sponsor money, rather than true competition.
If fans are not interested, then there will be no ROI regardless of how small the investment is.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

If fans are not interested, then there will be no ROI regardless of how small the investment is.

And yet, series like ELMS and Blancpain thrive despite only a few thousand people following each race on the streams and (outside Spa) that number again live at the track if they are lucky.

[Christian Mogami]

It looks like at the moment ESM will stay in TUSCC next year because whats hidden under the hood of the new HPD/Wirth ARX-04b!

I'm hearing the ARX-04b's that race in TUSCC next year will have ERS.
HPD is keeping it in the cap cost because they are using the new NSX power-train that was design from day one to use ERS.So there is no crazy cost to design and manufacture it,it's being design in parallel with the production NSX.

And with ERS,the HPD P2 would be able to pass the DP in the straights if they get close.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

It looks like at the moment ESM will stay in TUSCC next year because whats hidden under the hood of the new HPD/Wirth ARX-04b!

I'm hearing the ARX-04b's that race in TUSCC next year will have ERS.
HPD is keeping it in the cap cost because they are using the new NSX power-train that was design from day one to use ERS.So there is no crazy cost to design and manufacture it,it's being design in parallel with the production NSX.

And with ERS,the HPD P2 would be able to pass the DP in the straights if they get close.

That's interesting.......and TUSCAR will allow this?


That will be very very surprising.

[TRspitfirefan]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

It looks like at the moment ESM will stay in TUSCC next year because whats hidden under the hood of the new HPD/Wirth ARX-04b!

I'm hearing the ARX-04b's that race in TUSCC next year will have ERS.
HPD is keeping it in the cap cost because they are using the new NSX power-train that was design from day one to use ERS.So there is no crazy cost to design and manufacture it,it's being design in parallel with the production NSX.

And with ERS,the HPD P2 would be able to pass the DP in the straights if they get close.

That would be awesome!
The entire auto industry is moving towards hybrid electric systems, as well as other technologies designed to improve efficiency.
North American sports car racing needs to reflect this.