USCC (leave your axe outside)

[lms]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Either way it doesn't matter nascar is happy running crap so thats whats going to happen until tuscar dies, hopefully soon.

amen

[Hendrix]

Originally Posted by Gulf

but tell me again how being the 1st round of the WEC wasn't relevant?

The last race of the normal R18 was... the 2012 12 Hours of Sebring, the ultra and e-tron debuted at Spa.

Up until 2009 the race was the first shake down of a companies Le Mans challenger, starting in 2010 it was merely a fairwell tour of sorts before they put the car in storage.

As for the second part, even the worst NASCAR Cup races get better ratings than any other racing series, so they must be doing something right. It's kind of like Apple, I can't stand them and I couldn't stand Steve Jobs, but I'm not going to sit and say they can't do anything right, because the numbers don't lie and they have made billions.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Hendrix

The last race of the normal R18 was... the 2012 12 Hours of Sebring, the ultra and e-tron debuted at Spa.

Up until 2009 the race was the first shake down of a companies Le Mans challenger, starting in 2010 it was merely a fairwell tour of sorts before they put the car in storage.

Peugeot brought new cars.

Originally Posted by Hendrix

As for the second part, even the worst NASCAR Cup races get better ratings than any other racing series, so they must be doing something right. It's kind of like Apple, I can't stand them and I couldn't stand Steve Jobs, but I'm not going to sit and say they can't do anything right, because the numbers don't lie and they have made billions.

Nascar style really did great things for Grand-Ams ratings. Nascar numbers are in a free fall right now.

[Hendrix]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Peugeot brought new cars.

And they were the only ones to do so.

Nascar style really did great things for Grand-Ams ratings. Nascar numbers are in a free fall right now.

Well, they sure as hell got a better TV deal than the ALMS had.

NASCAR's ratings also aren't as bad as people like to make them out to be, granted they are dropping but I would hardly call it a freefall (most races have been in the 5-7 million viewers range, pretty much where they have been for the last few years).

Anyways, I'm done with this if you aren't going to be putting forth any actual arguments to support your cause (like why manufacturers should want to come to Sebring for instance).

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Hendrix

And they were the only ones to do so.



Well, they sure as hell got a better TV deal than the ALMS had.

NASCAR's ratings also aren't as bad as people like to make them out to be, granted they are dropping but I would hardly call it a freefall (most races have been in the 5-7 million viewers range, pretty much where they have been for the last few years).

Anyways, I'm done with this if you aren't going to be putting forth any actual arguments to support your cause (like why manufacturers should want to come to Sebring for instance).

"NASCAR's spring race at Talladega were the lowest since at least 1997" http://www.jayski.com/news/pages/sto...n-Ratings-2014
Thats pretty bad. The whole page is new record lows.

And I have told you a 1000 times Audi will come they ALWAYS come. They came this year the week before for testing. You are not listening.

[Hendrix]

Originally Posted by Gulf

Thats pretty bad. The whole page is new record lows.

You picked the wrong race to prove your point. Talladega had 6.9 million viewers. I'm sure every other series in the U.S. would kill to have that let alone have it be a "bad" week. Dover on the other hand has been the worst Fox race this year with only 5.4 million.

The ratings are down, I've already said that, but I would hardly call a 10% drop in ratings a free fall.

And I have told you a 1000 times Audi will come they ALWAYS come.

Source? As Maelochs has said, there is no benefit for either side.

They came this year the week before for testing. You are not listening.

Teams test at a lot of places, it means nothing!

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Hendrix

Source? As Maelochs has said, there is no benefit for either side.
!

They always Fing come... what more do you want?

[Maelochs]

We all see things differently ... let's agree to disagree isntead of getting any more worked up about it.

[Rcz]

At COTA didn't the WEC get beat by Grand-Am attendance wise? Then ouch...

I'm we know ALMS was the more popular show but geez....

That why I want any races with p1s to be more influence by IMSA and not FIA in America.

But I guess we do need to make sure to sure up the private teams first.

I hope the next Protos are not a anemic the horsepower area as the LMP2 are.

[jasonjessica09]

I find interesting the theory that TUSK in 2017 could be open borders so to speak with the Prototype category. LMP2 since 2014, DP, Super GT, and DTM cars all allowed to run. Sounds like something Leo Parente of the Drive Shakedown show was proposing on what he wanted to see in the future.

[Maelochs]

Ahhh ... Leo Parente ... the shadowy figure who really pulls the strings is thus revealed .....

[CyberMotor]

In a nutshell, I don't think it is right to attempt to present TUSCC as a top level of endurance prototype racing. It is probably about 60% of the former ALMS at its height, about 30% of the WEC and maybe 110% of the former Grand Am. If people can accept that and be happy with those facts then so be it. I know there are lot of fans that can realize the difference. From what I am reading in a lot of these posts, then it is acceptable. If so, the glory days are behind us.

[Maelochs]

I accept that TUSC is not a top-tier racing series, because I see that as fact. I do not accept it int he sense that I am satisfied with that.

If I approach my feelings as a fan, I can come up with a lot of suggestions. However, if I want to come up with a lot of practical, sensible suggestions, I need to think from the points of view of all the different involved parties.

I see the same thing on IndyCar sites, where "fans" clamor for open rules, multiple chassis, engines, and tire manufacturers, demand huge schedules including tracks which don't even exist any more, and demand total coverage from practice to an hour-long post-race show, all on every network channel.

Surprisingly, none of these 'fans" every address the commercial aspects ... like how to make things work financially, so that they actually work here in reality ...

Would I like to see P1s in TUSC? Sure, but if I actually Want that as opposed to wanting to dream about it and complain about it, I need to think abut the finances. Otherwise I am being pretty childish and foolish, and just ranting on pointlessly about ridiculous thing.

Anyway, I don't want to fight about all this. No one needs to agree with me---I don't come here for validation, but to share and learn ideas.

The "Glory Days" are always behind us---we never appreciate them fully when thery are happening, and always forget the downsides when we nostalgically revisit them.

However, times as good as--if very different than--those good days can still happen. But screaming and dreaming won't make them happen. Rational planning might.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

If I approach my feelings as a fan, I can come up with a lot of suggestions. However, if I want to come up with a lot of practical, sensible suggestions, I need to think from the points of view of all the different involved parties.

I see the same thing on IndyCar sites, where "fans" clamor for open rules, multiple chassis, engines, and tire manufacturers, demand huge schedules including tracks which don't even exist any more, and demand total coverage from practice to an hour-long post-race show, all on every network channel.

Surprisingly, none of these 'fans" every address the commercial aspects ... like how to make things work financially, so that they actually work here in reality ...

This is what bugs me the most about this subject.

It seems like so many just demand P1s and then act like the series is stupid for not allowing them, without considering where the P1s come from and how current teams would be told they need to upgrade to super expensive/complex machines if they want to continue to compete for the overall win and the like.

Then if you even sound like you don't agree 100% you are often met with some sort of condescending/hostile/dismissive/elitist comment that always sounds like they are talking down to you as if they think you are stupid and can't possibly understand why P1 cars are so amazing and that you are some kind of sheep for not being outraged over the lack of their inclusion.

Even just for letting the P1 cars into the NAEC, I just can't imagine that Ganassi, WTR, Action Express, SDR, Shank and probably Starworks would even float the idea of handing "their" big races of the year over. People can dislike the DPs all they want, but that doesn't mean that disregarding what the teams that are actually running in the series year-round want is a good way to run things. Regardless what the rules do in 2017, I'd be willing to bet that most of those teams will still be around and chasing off long time competitors doesn't seem like a good way forward. And that's just one of the barriers.

[MoMedic9019]

P1's are great, but, until the manufacturers begin selling their chassis as customers, and taking on the privateers in the same equipment, it's going to be a factory only group. The last time that happened was Kolles and Audi, along with Oreca and Peugeot. Not terribly often.

Rebellion and Kodewa/ADESS/Kolles-Lotus are frankly feel good projects. I'm happy to have half of them for now, and will welcome the other half in the future. 2015 will see 10 factory P1 cars. Neither of those two have a shot in hell at making the podium, this would have been the best year. Another year of development? No way.

They'd be best heading for P2 at his point, and coming to the US.

Back on topic----The USCC will make a slow shift towards P2. An additional 5-6 P2 cars along with ESM, Oak Ligier, and Starworks Ligier.

MMPR is still a possibility, yes, it's been closed, nothing has been sold though...
Dyson is still up in the air, though, I think they will be sticking with WC for the rest of the season, and probably next.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Accident

This is what bugs me the most about this subject.

It seems like so many just demand P1s and then act like the series is stupid for not allowing them, without considering where the P1s come from and how current teams would be told they need to upgrade to super expensive/complex machines if they want to continue to compete for the overall win and the like.

Then if you even sound like you don't agree 100% you are often met with some sort of condescending/hostile/dismissive/elitist comment that always sounds like they are talking down to you as if they think you are stupid and can't possibly understand why P1 cars are so amazing and that you are some kind of sheep for not being outraged over the lack of their inclusion.

Even just for letting the P1 cars into the NAEC, I just can't imagine that Ganassi, WTR, Action Express, SDR, Shank and probably Starworks would even float the idea of handing "their" big races of the year over. People can dislike the DPs all they want, but that doesn't mean that disregarding what the teams that are actually running in the series year-round want is a good way to run things. Regardless what the rules do in 2017, I'd be willing to bet that most of those teams will still be around and chasing off long time competitors doesn't seem like a good way forward. And that's just one of the barriers.

If they don't like it then they should upgrade. Keeping out top level com petition because current teams not being able to compete is just stupid. It's like the NFL only letting the Jags and Dolphins play because they might not win as much otherwise and their feelings could get hurt. These teams are not quality teams anyways and have only survived because of nascar subsidies. Having no P class is better than what we have now.

I feel it's better to complain loudly now than just except what the almighty Frances give us. That way maybe we won't be stuck with grand am 2.0 for another decade.

[Matt]

Again, do you feel the same towards the ELMS and AsLMS?

[Danathar]

As a fan, my bottom line is this:

I like watching and following LMP1 (and P2) cars better than I like watching DP cars.

I would rather see LMP1 cars over DP at Daytona and Sebring (for the win) at the very least (and elsewhere if possible).

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Danathar

As a fan, my bottom line is this:

I like watching and following LMP1 (and P2) cars better than I like watching DP cars.

I would rather see LMP1 cars over DP at Daytona and Sebring (for the win) at the very least (and elsewhere if possible).

Then watch WEC. It really is that simple.

P1 doesn't make sense right now for USCC.

[Bicknell55]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

I accept that TUSC is not a top-tier racing series, because I see that as fact. I do not accept it int he sense that I am satisfied with that.

If I approach my feelings as a fan, I can come up with a lot of suggestions. However, if I want to come up with a lot of practical, sensible suggestions, I need to think from the points of view of all the different involved parties.

I see the same thing on IndyCar sites, where "fans" clamor for open rules, multiple chassis, engines, and tire manufacturers, demand huge schedules including tracks which don't even exist any more, and demand total coverage from practice to an hour-long post-race show, all on every network channel.

Surprisingly, none of these 'fans" every address the commercial aspects ... like how to make things work financially, so that they actually work here in reality ...

Would I like to see P1s in TUSC? Sure, but if I actually Want that as opposed to wanting to dream about it and complain about it, I need to think abut the finances. Otherwise I am being pretty childish and foolish, and just ranting on pointlessly about ridiculous thing.

Anyway, I don't want to fight about all this. No one needs to agree with me---I don't come here for validation, but to share and learn ideas.

The "Glory Days" are always behind us---we never appreciate them fully when thery are happening, and always forget the downsides when we nostalgically revisit them.

However, times as good as--if very different than--those good days can still happen. But screaming and dreaming won't make them happen. Rational planning might.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I think majority of us would love to see P1s back racing in the US on a regular basis however if the business model for the teams is not viable then what's the point?

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Matt

Again, do you feel the same towards the ELMS and AsLMS?

I do, but at least they have not destroyed important historical races.

[Gulf]

Originally Posted by Danathar

As a fan, my bottom line is this:

I like watching and following LMP1 (and P2) cars better than I like watching DP cars.

I would rather see LMP1 cars over DP at Daytona and Sebring (for the win) at the very least (and elsewhere if possible).

That would make everything better. I would go back to those races and then continue not caring about the rest of tuscar.

Its not hard they do show up but I guess it's not Murican' enough for nascar.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by Gulf

That would make everything better. I would go back to those races and then continue not caring about the rest of tuscar.

Its not hard they do show up but I guess it's not Murican' enough for nascar.

So USCC has to cater to only you? Forget the teams!...let's just make Gulf happy.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Danathar

As a fan, my bottom line is this:

I like watching and following LMP1 (and P2) cars better than I like watching DP cars.

I would rather see LMP1 cars over DP at Daytona and Sebring (for the win) at the very least (and elsewhere if possible).

So, by your own stated standards you are not a fan, why are you even posting in this thread? It is for TUSCC, which you do not like by your own admissions. Why do the rest of us, that wish to see the series make a go of it, have to suffer through all of the angst that is being spewed? It is getting beyond way frakking obnoxious! Truly, if it is such a disappointment, PLEASE, just walk away!








L.P.

[Rcz]

So there's going to more p2 coming? Why? The DP is clearly the superior car.

DPs have less drag, more horse power, more factory support.

Sure they more heavy, but that's turning out be a advantage has it has caused to heat up the tires more faster.

The one true disadvantaged they is they're expensive, but if your a super rich owner with factory support and sponsorship and you want to win. You won't mind spending a little bit more.