The Porsche vs Ferrari (or Badger vs brielga) thread

[Spyderman]

10kg is nothing at a track like Le Mans. It is often less than the weight difference between drivers of the same car. Irrelevant!

[TF110]

Its actually 20kg the Aston has increased since Spa. They added 10 before the test day and 10 more after.

[Spyderman]

That's the difference in weight between Joerg Bergmeister (80Kg) and Timo Bernhard (60Kg)

[Dario911]

I think 10 kg are nothing in Le Mans, and that... Dumas is a silouhette!

[arakis]

HAHA just noticed astons are runing 5mm lower ride hight then everyone else as well.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

That's the difference in weight between Joerg Bergmeister (80Kg) and Timo Bernhard (60Kg)

Your point? They have a bigger heavier engine as well. The larger fuel tank adds another 4kg just in fuel weight. The ACO make these decisions. If youre upset about it, maybe you could write them your distaste or contact Porsche to go slow so they can get bop

[Spyderman]

I assure you that I would be "upset" if the ACO had turned a blind eye on any of the other car's obvious performance superiority due to BOP.
I don't like to be "pretended" to. As a fan, I find it insulting. If AM had this performance advantage due to design/hard work/ and engineering prowess (like Ferrari does) then you would not hear a peep from me.

[TF110]

So when their car won only one race last year at better bop than currently applied, what does that mean? They aren't winning on merit but favorable rules? If that were the case, they should have swept all of last season. The new Vantage is just that, new. Funny, Porsche made a brand new car too, and are running 1210kg, and only .1 mm smaller restrictor than Aston. They even had the highest top speed during the test day, so really its not a huge difference between the cars. Is Porsche's bop justified then?

[arakis]

Plz, for the love of god, and all that is holly, STOP FEEDING THE TROLL

[TF110]

You have something to add? Its all a game this bop. Im not favoring it for one team over another. But there are obviously games being played by each team to benefit from it.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

So when their car won only one race last year at better bop than currently applied, what does that mean? They aren't winning on merit but favorable rules? If that were the case, they should have swept all of last season. The new Vantage is just that, new. Funny, Porsche made a brand new car too, and are running 1210kg, and only .1 mm smaller restrictor than Aston. They even had the highest top speed during the test day, so really its not a huge difference between the cars. Is Porsche's bop justified then?

Look: The 991 is only half a new car. The engine is the old Mezger. It has 15% less capacity than the 4.5L used by AM. It is the smallest engine in the GTE field, and you think that it is reasonable that the AM has larger (or even the same size) restrictors?

I don't want to get into a song and dance with you again, as you circular arguments serve no purpose other than to wind people up.
You are obviously happy with the way things are. Good for you.
I am not. Please respect that. I'll respect your state of blissfulness too.

[rich07]

I'll just leave this here.......................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=bkIg3HNgSnA

Lets hope we can do it again without rebuilding the car before the race

[Spyderman]

Ill' admit to the following: I will obviously be rooting for the Porsche, but to be honest, I think they have a very steep hill to climb. If they are not capable of winning, then I hope Ferrari takes it.

[porman]

Just so I'm clear on this. You don't want AM racing to win?

[bentley speed 8]

Originally Posted by Articus

I think its very unfair what ACO have done to the Ferrari to cut the fuel tank 5 litres from everyone else. At the Test day the Viper and the Aston with there large V8 and v10 both did 12 lap stints compared to ten for the Ferrari. I know there was weather etc which may effect things but it would just be wrong to see the other cars being able to run further on a tank of fuel than the direct injected Ferrari. While also having waivered engines and unrestricted engines. Ferrari should be entitled to using there advantage for having developed a fuel efficient engine. Something that every other manufacturer should strive towards rather than giving others a larger fuel tank so they can use even more fuel.

It may have been acceptable to cut the fuel use so that the Ferraris can do as many laps as the other. But now their advantage has been turned into a disadvantage as they have much worse fuel consumption than the rest. That's just penalizing a car which was developed better (and also the one using less waivers) so that the others could catch up without any effort. That's not really "equalizing"

Just what is ACO trying to achieve with those Aston Martins? What if an Aston wins the race?

Maybe since it's their 100th Anniversary, they will use that as an excuse for more exposure of the WEC?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Look: The 991 is only half a new car. The engine is the old Mezger. It has 15% less capacity than the 4.5L used by AM. It is the smallest engine in the GTE field, and you think that it is reasonable that the AM has larger (or even the same size) restrictors?

I don't want to get into a song and dance with you again, as you circular arguments serve no purpose other than to wind people up.
You are obviously happy with the way things are. Good for you.
I am not. Please respect that. I'll respect your state of blissfulness too.

So you think its only half a new car. But what is the Aston then? They don't win on merit in your opinion. So I asked why is it they didn't win so easily last year while having the same bop (actually better)? This is no song and dance. I don't do the 'tango'. Im asking you to see it from another pov. You see bop allowing them to dominate. But they've won two races in the past 1 1/2 years with the car. Theyve obviously done a better job with the new car. Bop has helped but you can't complain while there are other cars with bop breaks. I think every team has been sandbagging and now some are going to pay the price for not doing it enough, while others reap rewards for misleading with their pace. Fyi, I don't root for any particular GTE team. Being honest, I hope the Viper wins.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by rich07

I'll just leave this here.......................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=bkIg3HNgSnA

Lets hope we can do it again without rebuilding the car before the race

That was nonsense last year and I was very upset about that, from the rules that car should of never been rebuilt with a new chassis.but the aco allowed it and they went on to win the race.i don't remember where but I thought I read somewhere that this year teams are only allowed one engine to qualify and race with,I hope aston blows a few even though if they do there'll be a force majur for that.with the aco playing games like that I hope the vettes or vipers take it.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by TF110

So you think its only half a new car. But what is the Aston then? They don't win on merit in your opinion. So I asked why is it they didn't win so easily last year while having the same bop (actually better)? This is no song and dance. I don't do the 'tango'. Im asking you to see it from another pov. You see bop allowing them to dominate. But they've won two races in the past 1 1/2 years with the car. Theyve obviously done a better job with the new car. Bop has helped but you can't complain while there are other cars with bop breaks. I think every team has been sandbagging and now some are going to pay the price for not doing it enough, while others reap rewards for misleading with their pace. Fyi, I don't root for any particular GTE team. Being honest, I hope the Viper wins.

Your point just proves that the BOP they were given last year is no longer needed this year. It should have been adjusted. (That why it is called Balance of Performance). What we currently have is Unbalance of Performance.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Your point just proves that the BOP they were given last year is no longer needed this year. It should have been adjusted. (That why it is called Balance of Performance). What we currently have is Unbalance of Performance.

They have received 20kg from Spa, so it has changed. As for the 'should have been changed from last year' Porsche runs the same bop as the old car other than rear wing height. Seems the ACO just went 'as-is' in terms of bop from the end of last season to the beginning of this one.

[Spyderman]

The ACO know that the only real adjustment that needs to be made to the Astons are the restrictor sizes. Everything else is for the "Tourist to see" so to speak.

[arakis]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The ACO know that the only real adjustment that needs to be made to the Astons are the restrictor sizes. Everything else is for the "Tourist to see" so to speak.

+1

[Articus]

Exactly.

[porman]

Amen brother!

[porman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

I assure you that I would be "upset" if the ACO had turned a blind eye on any of the other car's obvious performance superiority due to BOP.
I don't like to be "pretended" to. As a fan, I find it insulting. If AM had this performance advantage due to design/hard work/ and engineering prowess (like Ferrari does) then you would not hear a peep from me.

As usual, the voice of logic. It always amazes me when someone can be blinded by loyalty to a marque etc. I happen to be a Porsche supporter but will also be one of the first to voice criticism.

As it stands, Ferrari deserve the win. The 458 is one hell of a car.

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

The ACO know that the only real adjustment that needs to be made to the Astons are the restrictor sizes. Everything else is for the "Tourist to see" so to speak.

Right, man! That's the point!