[BTCC] BTCC 2020 season discussion, News and Rumours!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I think the point is the budget per car would increase by a fair margin due to economies of scale.

I'm not certain I can see that happening though.

Assuming they were forced to reduce to two cars, then the money brought in by running cars 3 and 4 would also disappear. They would then find that they have less budget per car for the remaining two, because the same fixed overheads would remain.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

Sutton and Cook are good drivers.

As for the question of licences, is it the case that they've "got the appropriate licences" because the threshold for the BTCC is low? (Not spewing nonsense, just asking! - I thought I'd clarify )

Driver level is International 'C', which means a minimum number of 'successfully completed' signatures as follows:

Interclub (formerly Clubman) to National: 6 Interclub races or 12 Junior races, with the option of one signature from the Clerk for a day on the bank marshalling.

National to International 'D': no further qualification

National/International 'D' to International 'C': 3 National races, or 2 National + 2 Interclub races, or 6 Interclub; spread over 3 different venues.

That's the path Ollie Brown took to get a seat this year - although he has the added experience of 20 years as an instructor at Bedford Autodrome.

So... if you have the money and the wherewithal to qualify for the licence (which has been the same for some time), why not do it? You never know, you might find - or be - the next Turkington. After all, the fastest driver in Britain is hurling a taxi round Birmingham, right?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

After all, the fastest driver in Britain is hurling a taxi round Birmingham, right?

I always thought the fastest driver was someone in a hire car - they automatically add 20mph to your speed at all times.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

I'd also add a certain team to that list, that had trouble paying a few bills.

Team Club 44?

[RS67]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Team Club 44?

I was referring to BMR. Did Team Club 44 ever seriously get going? I thought they never got any further than intentions and aspirations.

[Craner Curves]

Interesting to hear on a podcast he was on, that Robb Holland could have been back this year had it not been for The Covid.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by RS67

I was referring to BMR. Did Team Club 44 ever seriously get going? I thought they never got any further than intentions and aspirations.

They got going. In fact, some would argue they are still on the grid - hence part of the team name appearing on one of the cars this season.....

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Not sure I follow your thinking here peebee - economies of scale come into effect when you have more cars not less. Reducing the number of cars would increase the cost per car of operating.

Yes that’s what I meant as previous poster couldn’t understand why budgets would increase if you ran less cars.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes that’s what I meant as previous poster couldn’t understand why budgets would increase if you ran less cars.

You'd have a lower overall budget (less income).
You'd have a higher fixed cost per car (fixed costs spread across less units).
So a smaller proportion of your budget is available for operating each car.

Hypothetically -
If your revenue generated by each car is £250k, you have a £1mill budget to operate with.
If your fixed overheads amount to £200k, your operating budget per car is £200k.

If you drop the car number to two, your revenue is halved to £500k.
Fixed overheads remain at £200k, leaving an operating budget of £150k per car.

[5five]

I understand that cost would increase, but I would have thought doing a better job with two cars, and focusing the sponsorship assets on those and achieving better results would offer more value.

2 cars is less personnel, less trucks, probably less income from VIPs, but even focusing on increasing the budget from £250k a car to £300k a car would yield better results.

I could be wrong, to be in motorsport my ambition would be winning, perhaps it is actually just a business to make profit for the owner, then chuck the drivers out in any old rubbish as long as you make your cut.

If the majority of your cars are all in the bottom 25% of the grid then perhaps something could be improved.

[WestHam92]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Yes that’s what I meant as previous poster couldn’t understand why budgets would increase if you ran less cars.

In that case, why not allow 40 cars to be on the grid? Budgets would decrease by having more cars, so costs would drop overall.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

In that case, why not allow 40 cars to be on the grid?

https://www.btcc.net/2018/06/06/alan...-at-the-seams/

[WestHam92]

The seams burst a while ago

[AnnoyedMoose]

Can't help thinking that there is a lot of fishing going on here...

[VIVA GT]

I must applaud all of the posters on here who have calmly tried to explain things in a measured and well tempered way.
My next statement is not aimed at any one individual but I do wonder what levels of driving ability and engineering prowess the criticisers have and also what experience they have of running a successful business (which is what BTCC teams actually are).

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by RS67

I was referring to BMR. Did Team Club 44 ever seriously get going? I thought they never got any further than intentions and aspirations.

same for Team 48 ? at least they got on media day

[Sodemo]

Who was the driver for Team 48? Gore?

[S griffin]

Gore and Darrell Wilson

[WestHam92]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I must applaud all of the posters on here who have calmly tried to explain things in a measured and well tempered way.
My next statement is not aimed at any one individual but I do wonder what levels of driving ability and engineering prowess the criticisers have and also what experience they have of running a successful business (which is what BTCC teams actually are).

I'll answer this as it's more than likely aimed at me. You're getting at the idea that people who haven't done something can't criticise those who do said thing. Just because someone hasn't raced, engineered a racing car or run a business doesn't mean they can't comment on those who do. By your logic, political journalists can't comment on what the Prime Minister does because they've not been Prime Minister!

[crmalcolm]

For those who may not remember:

Team 48 was the project of footballers Luther Blissett, John Barnes and Les Ferdinand along with motoring journalist Kevin Haggarthy. They were planning to run a pair of Alfa Romeo 156s in 2008 that they had purchased from the A-Tech squad, with the drivers being Darrelle Wilson and Matthew Gore.



Team Club 44 was the project of Andy Neate, running a Chevrolet Cruze in 2013 under the IP Tech Race Engineering/Club 44 banner. The team made its debut officially in the second half of the 2013 season.

[Alfisti]

...and in fairness to Mr Neate, the car looked pretty darn cool. Sadly we never saw too much of it, I think ambition ran on ahead of budget. Still, he had a go

[Greem]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

I'll answer this as it's more than likely aimed at me. You're getting at the idea that people who haven't done something can't criticise those who do said thing. Just because someone hasn't raced, engineered a racing car or run a business doesn't mean they can't comment on those who do. By your logic, political journalists can't comment on what the Prime Minister does because they've not been Prime Minister!

That's not quite right though, is it? Political journalists at that level have spent years, or decades, studying and reporting on the goings-on of Parliament, usually after starting locally covering things like local council meetings and working up from there. They are working from a position of considerable experience of observing, talking to, and talking about their prey. They're like a motorsport commentator, not an enthusiast and certainly not a "fan".

In motorsport terms, it's the difference between me beating on a team on a forum because I don't like the colour of the car or the fact that someone's got less experience than someone else that I really like, and Tim Harvey being critical of a team on the TV. He's got decades of experience of racing in many series, coaching and so on; I've watched it on TV*

I can still have an opinion, but I have to choose my words more carefully and be prepared to be knocked back due to lack of detailed knowledge.

*Yes, I know, I've not only watched it on TV

[RS67]

Originally Posted by WestHam92

In that case, why not allow 40 cars to be on the grid? Budgets would decrease by having more cars, so costs would drop overall.

Tracks like Knockhill wouldn't be able to support a 40 car grid with the size of the cars and grid formation. That is why the limit was previously set at 32 cars.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

For those who may not remember:

Team 48 was the project of footballers Luther Blissett, John Barnes and Les Ferdinand along with motoring journalist Kevin Haggarthy. They were planning to run a pair of Alfa Romeo 156s in 2008 that they had purchased from the A-Tech squad, with the drivers being Darrelle Wilson and Matthew Gore.



Team Club 44 was the project of Andy Neate, running a Chevrolet Cruze in 2013 under the IP Tech Race Engineering/Club 44 banner. The team made its debut officially in the second half of the 2013 season.

That's what confused me, I was thinking of Team 48, when you mentioned 44 earlier. I only really knew Neate's entry as IP Tech.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

...and in fairness to Mr Neate, the car looked pretty darn cool. Sadly we never saw too much of it, I think ambition ran on ahead of budget. Still, he had a go

Didn't he qualify in the top 10 at Silverstone?