End of the road for Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by RedZedMikey

Interested to know what the gearbox was - manual, or 4/5/6 speed auto? I have a BF XR6 with the ZF 6 speed, I reckon it's a great trans. The car has the OEM heavy duty tow kit, has towed my Z from Melb to Morgan Park and back capably and legally. Makes a hell of a lot better daily driver than the options I might be facing from 2016 onwards ... guess I'd better keep it in good condition!

I have very little interest in my next daily/towcar being a Navara, Hi-Lux, Ranger, Colorado etc.

Sorry RedZedMikey in my delay in getting back to you. The XR6's i have driven have all been the auto. I am in the minority i know but i just can't stand auto boxes. As it happens though, in normal auto mode it was just like any other auto, but i tried to use the tip-tronic thing and just hated it. Its the same with any other Tip-tronic i've driven, its just not like a manual.

That is just my opinion though, and like i say i will be in the minority (i think) when it comes to transmission selection.

The problem i have now is, when i go to upgrade my current car in 3 or 4 years, will there be any manuals left full stop?

[Evomike]

Have owned a number of Commodores over the years and leased a few Falcons, I currently own 2 VE Series 2 SV6's, one sportwagon and one sedan, I can honestly say we have been over the moon with them, the sportwagon is a great family car and granted I could have got a smaller car than the sedan for my daily driver, but as I was coming out of an ageing HSV Clubsport I really like having a bigger car. The SV6 is quicker through the twisty stuff than the old Clubsport despite a 50KW difference

[redesp]

I believe that both the Ford and Holden products (built locally) have just run thier race.
The "general" public (as opposed to us forum members with an interest in motor sport:- and subsequently cars in general) have no interest or requirement to use a Falcon / Commodoore sized vehicle.
Smaller families and tighter budgets denote the need for smaller fuel efficient cars.
Families are moving more towards "people movers" and vans.... and then there's the X-Over market... basically making the traditional "family car" obsolete.

Then there's the other side of the equation.
Cheap import tarrifs have made it more affordable to purchase imported cars rather than a locally built vehicle.
Why buy a Statesman or G6E with you can buy an Audi or BMW?
Further to that, the people buying cars in this price range would rather have the "euro" modle rather than the aussie car for no other reason other than braggin rights about having a Beemer or Audi. And finally.. don't get me started on supercheap chinese and asian imports.(ie Great Wall).

Q. Why is there no export market for Falcon and Commodoore??
A. Simply because the rest of the world has an import tarriff scheme that protects thier local market.

In my humble opinion:
1. increase the import tarriff to provide protection for local manufacturers and stop the flood of imported cars. (the reduction in tarriff's under the original Button Plan has done its job by driving aussie quality UP).. and in doing so maybe stimulate a bit more sales growth in the local product.

2. Ford and Holden need to take a leaf out of Toyota's book and build vehicles that the general population want / need.

So it might be the end of the road for Falcon and Commodoore... but what i'd like to see is a vehicle that meets current needs while still being locally built.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by redesp

1. increase the import tarriff to provide protection for local manufacturers and stop the flood of imported cars. (the reduction in tarriff's under the original Button Plan has done its job by driving aussie quality UP).. and in doing so maybe stimulate a bit more sales growth in the local product.

Problem as I see it is we keep having these "free trade agreements" with other countries where their policies towards Australian inputs are anything but free.

Thailand for example where most commercial vehicles seem to be coming from lately, have minimal tarrifs here but offhand a stiff 15% tarriff in anything we could try to export. Similarly the US, where we have a "free trade agreement" that has given away our citizen's rights to be protected under Australian law, and we still have union-mandated maximum quantities of cars into the country.

I don't see the benefit of these lop-sided free trade agreements, I believe we should implement reciprocal tarriffs for this reason. Whether that is sound fiscal policy, I don't know...

[Steptoe]

The big problem is the Government does not support them. There is no policy to buy Aussie built vehicles. Holden has vehicles that support biofuels and LPG and Ford has 4cyl ecoboost and dedicated LPG gas. Both supporting the 'green' issues. But for whatever reason the Govmt buy imported vehicles and don't give a stuff about local workforces.
We also have one of the biggest manufacturer ranges available anywhere which gives people more choice.

[Axeman444]

problem is tariffs result in pushing up complacency, resulting in product that is not up to scratch with overseas product, and if the tariffs get removed subsequently, the industry dies. So the government has to continue with the tariffs.

And no, in the economics text book in these days of a global economy, tariffs are bad mmmmmk

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by redesp

I believe that both the Ford and Holden products (built locally) have just run thier race.
The "general" public (as opposed to us forum members with an interest in motor sport:- and subsequently cars in general) have no interest or requirement to use a Falcon / Commodoore sized vehicle.
Smaller families and tighter budgets denote the need for smaller fuel efficient cars.

Although my understanding is that there have been steady increases in SUV sales and also that people are still buying 4WDs. Whilst some smaller cars ARE generally seeing increases, the market is still there for large cars - it's just now that people want those large cars to also be tall and look like they can head off road.

Maybe the answer is to jack the local product up on their springs and everyone will love them again?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Although my understanding is that there have been steady increases in SUV sales and also that people are still buying 4WDs. Whilst some smaller cars ARE generally seeing increases, the market is still there for large cars - it's just now that people want those large cars to also be tall and look like they can head off road.

Maybe the answer is to jack the local product up on their springs and everyone will love them again?

I prefer to drive my daughter's dualis more than her husband's mazda 6.

[DAVID PATERSON]

I replaced my BA with a new FG XR6 this week and i love it! It looks great, it's nice to drive, tons of room and very comfortable.

I'm sick of hearing that Falcon and Commodore are dying because "people don't want thirsty, gas guzzling hulks". Bull****!!! The huge growth in the faux wheel drive and off road 4WD markets far outstrips the modest growth in the econobox market. Further, the new Falcon and Commodore are very efficient and give quite good fuel economy.

I do 30K p.a. and by my calcs, switching to a little 4 cyl car would save me about $20/week. Woopty do!

[FAS33]

yeah people in general think big cars = big petrol costs.

maybe if they made the Falcon and Commodores smaller in shape and size they'd get back to where they were in the 70's , 80's. but look at every model as they get an upgrade every few years, from VK to the VE and the AU to the FG today, they get bigger in size. big sedans have gone from hero to zero just about, thats why it's not such a bad idea to see a mid sized holden cruz that should be holmogated to the V8Supercars of the future.

[Trevor]

Has anyone who calls the Falcon and Commodore 'big' cars actually parked one beside a 'mid' range car, there is **** all difference, the belief of a size difference is a furphy perpetrated by the media

And I agree, Government Departments should be forced to by local cars, but then we would see fleets full of Camry's

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I replaced my BA with a new FG XR6 this week and i love it! It looks great, it's nice to drive, tons of room and very comfortable.

I'm sick of hearing that Falcon and Commodore are dying because "people don't want thirsty, gas guzzling hulks". Bull****!!! The huge growth in the faux wheel drive and off road 4WD markets far outstrips the modest growth in the econobox market. Further, the new Falcon and Commodore are very efficient and give quite good fuel economy.

I do 30K p.a. and by my calcs, switching to a little 4 cyl car would save me about $20/week. Woopty do!

You are right about the fuel economy........if I drive sensibly I can get over 800kms out of the 68 litre tank with the old SOHC in-line six on the open road, and it's not too bad around town either..........ecoboost 4 would be even better.

[porsche91722]

At the end of the day, the market decides what the market wants! All the moaning by Holden and Ford and their fan-boys won't make people buy their cars, if they aren't considered desirable by the masses. Like any major purchase, people make a decision on what best suits them. Both Ford and GM expected us to buy what they produced for decades, and we did! The market place has changed, we have a greater range to choose from, and labeling people for their choice of car or whatever, doesn't mean they will buy that product if it doesn't suit their lifestyle.
Another issue is their advertising. Holden (in particular) and Ford TV ads, have been really lame, but I guess they are up against it, attempting to sell their polished turds to a marketplace that is just not interested.

[Juarez Jed]

Holden of course will have the Korean made Malibu crowding the market between the Cruze and the Commodore whilst probably stealing buyers from both.
At least the people who have been wanting a Korean car in V8supercars may get their wish, at the expense of the Commodore however.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...libu&FORM=IGRE

[The Generals Army]

Wont effect supercars, they will put the Malibu/Cruze body shape as the shell (if they do get rid of the commodore name plate, which i dont think they will) and ford will put there midsize shell over their veh (hell they have said they could be doing this as soon as 2014 so as to have both falcon and mondeo in the same series)

[NZSTfan]

If you want to talk about SHOCKING fuel economy.....i have just bought the missus a new car, a NZ New 2007 Subaru Impreza WRX STi Spec C. This was to replace her older 1997 STi Tye RA.

Anyway, no matter how you drive it, a 50L fill of 98 Octane fuel (with Octane booster) will return 300km's!!!! Now thats bad economy.

But, we didn't buy that car for that reason, hence why some of the posts here i agree with. If you're a petrol head (and one imagines you are if you post on here) you buy a vehicle because it makes you feel good.

I tried so hard to get her a economical swift of mazda 3, but she wouldn't have a bar of it. Thats the problem when the benchmark is already a factory Group N spec car

I think i have also found the secret to 'owning' the car of your dreams without it getting knocked about and generally decaying over time.....its simple.....you buy it for the missus, who cleans it every weekend and doesn't go over 4000 rpm in it. Then when its my turn for a fang, i've got a great, clean and wonderfully presented car.

I mean seriously, we have had the 97 model for about 8 years. In that time we/she have put just 30k on the clock. That car is actually in better nick than when we bought it. Hence why we are keeping both 'Scoobies - the new one only has 13k on the clock and i know that when they become old and rare, they may be worth something. The other trick is to always buy un-modified cars, which in the case of subarus is near impossible. But we found two of them, and already we have been offered 5k more than what we paid for the 97 model 8 years ago.

Sorry for going a bit off topic here, but i though this was valid

[Umai Naa]

Sounds like you and I have women from opposite ends of the car-loving spectrum!

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Sounds like you and I have women from opposite ends of the car-loving spectrum!

Haha, yeah i'm quite lucky there to be honest, she likes m/sport as much as i do but is more interested in F1.

But its a start i suppose......i'll get her around to real racing soon enough

[Chris - Melb]

Originally Posted by porsche91722

Another issue is their advertising. Holden (in particular) and Ford TV ads, have been really lame, but I guess they are up against it, attempting to sell their polished turds to a marketplace that is just not interested.

I can't speak for the Commodore, but I daresay you have not driven the latest Falcon? A polished turd it is not.

A car that has not changed in shape for decades and has a motor sticking out behind the rear axle line certainly is a polished turd. How much for one of those deathtraps?

The reasons for the decline of the Commodore and Falcon is the high Australian dollar and the deliberate lowering of the Japanese yen. Both of these make it difficult for local manufacturers to compete and opens up the market.

Also a lot of Commodore and Falcon buyers have moved onto SUVs.

Not to mention that many other sedans are gaining size and are now barely any smaller than these cars.

The market is far more diverse these days.

[kittle]

Maybe its not the end of the road for the Holden Commodore.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/hold...continue-34950

The Holden Commodore name will continue on into an all-new locally built fifth generation in 2017.

The all-new Commodore will be built on a global architecture at the Elizabeth plant in Adelaide, alongside the second generation Cruze small car, which should enter production in 2015.

[Chris - Melb]

It maybe its not the end of the road for the Falcon if they import something like a Taurus and put a Falcon name badge on it.

It's a similar deal; neither will be homegrown.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Chris - Melb

It maybe its not the end of the road for the Falcon if they import something like a Taurus and put a Falcon name badge on it.

It's a similar deal; neither will be homegrown.

It unrealistic these days to make multiple, different platforms for what is basically the same type of car, i.e. mid size, suv, etc.

Both of those cars will have to have some sort of connection to the rest of the world to make financial sense going forward.

[Gaz170]

Originally Posted by Chris - Melb

It maybe its not the end of the road for the Falcon if they import something like a Taurus and put a Falcon name badge on it.

It's a similar deal; neither will be homegrown.

That would be my guess for the next "Falcon".

[bluesport]

Would a front wheel drive commodore or Falcon sell? May as well just buy a toyota aurion and get a better car to boot.

[Redzone]

Originally Posted by kittle

Maybe its not the end of the road for the Holden Commodore.

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/hold...continue-34950

The Holden Commodore name will continue on into an all-new locally built fifth generation in 2017.

The all-new Commodore will be built on a global architecture at the Elizabeth plant in Adelaide, alongside the second generation Cruze small car, which should enter production in 2015.

Just like the VB commodore!