Alex Yoong goes racing in Mexico/Yoong signs with Coyne (merged)

[kmchow]

So did Alex Yoong bring any sponsorship/company logos with him or just pure cash?

[JohnSSC]

For a guy who had very little experience in this type of car, I thought Yoong did well. He certainly wasn't the bowser he was made out to be in the F1 part of the forum!

An F1 driver he is not, but a serviceable Champcar driver he may turn out to be.

[GTRMagic]

If you noticed his racesuit kmchow, and the lack of commercial sponsors in the car, Yoong seemed to bring his body & his crash hat to the drive

Yoong has made statements in the press that he got this drive on merit

[Lee Janotta]

He[...]still has his Malaysian backers paying his salary, even if they're not sponsoring the team! Give that a few weeks before it's worked out!

Dale Coyne could get _much_ better drivers if he offered the seat without money changing hands either way.

edited for incendiary language.
EERO

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by Liz
After all, look at what Mikey did in CART after his abysmal F1 tryout in the best car on the grid.

Uhm, Liz, in all fairness to Mikey, and I'm _not_ a fan of his, that '93 McLaren-Cosworth was by no means the best car on the grid! The Williams was far and away the best then the Benneton, which was getting higher-spec Cossies than McLaren. Senna couldn't even do much with that car, and wasn't even close to Prost in the final points tally.

[marcus]

but he still won 5 races

but this isnt the f1 forum.

Yoong did well and despite what anyone says I think he deserves another shot if not the rest of the year.

[True Believer]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
He[...]still has his Malaysian backers paying his salary, even if they're not sponsoring the team! Give that a few weeks before it's worked out!

Dale Coyne could get _much_ better drivers if he offered the seat without money changing hands either way.

Again with the Yoong bashing. Again [...] making [...] statements bordering on libel with no facts presented. [...]

Dale Coyne could get much better drivers if he had a lead driver in the car from the start of the year with chassis sorting expertise, with appropriate testing, with an engineering crew with the resources and the talent to push the car forward technically, and indeed commercial sponsorship to make it all happen

None of these is true sadly, so there is a paydriver in the car in Camathias, and in an attempt to attract backing, Coyne seems to have flicked Gonzales (another paydriver) and replaced him with Yoong as a pukka race driver, in the hope of attracting more backing for the whole team by having a better showing than Gonzales could manage.

Yoong has talent, your myopia [...]prevents you for acknowledging that.


Edited the quote, and incendiary remarks
-EERO

[corkholio]

Originally posted by [...]
I couldn't be bothered to edit the quote again. See Post immediately above.-EERO

Yet you seem to have absolutely no problem assuming that Camathias is a pay driver, and unless you have absolute proof that Dale Coyne cashed Camathias' checks, then you yourself is bordering on libel. If Coyne was really hiring on merit, he would have Barron and Gidley in the cars, not two rich European feeder series rejects. If you actually knew [anything] about CART, you would know that Coyne never looks for sponsorship himself. On ability alone there is no ...way anyone will keep Yoong.


edited for not so subtle attempts to foil the Autocensor

[corkholio]

Heck I don't even know why I should bother trying to discuss with you, since you seem to either try to change the subject or go into personal attack mode when you argument is completely shot.

[Tailwind]

I for one was somewhat impressed. Having never driven a Champ Car, he did well just to keep it out of the wall. He didn't make any of the rookie mistakes that we saw from several other drivers. Because of his performance in F1 I was prepared not to think much of him. After this weekend, I'd say he did a damn sight better than others that have more Champ Car wheel time.

[True Believer]

Originally posted by corkholio
If you actually knew anything about CART, you would know that Coyne never looks for sponsorship himself.

Your responses are curious, you claim that recognised drivers should flock to Dale Coyne Racing, yet in the same breath say that the team owner wont go looking for sponsorship.

Based on the above, every driver running for that team is likely to be a pay driver, unless invited by the team like Yoong seems to have been at Monterrey.

The logic of this escapes me, how does a team progress if the driver coming to them is the money sourcer, how does a racing business spend the time increasing its resources, its people, its infrastructure when the whole thing in your explanation is dependent on drivers finding the commercial partners rather than the team

Either there is an element of incorrectness in what you are saying, or the team doesnt regard its future development as important

Imagine being a driver at DCR and not knowing whether the team has the dollars to finish the year if you have a crash.... not my cup of tea.


Quote edited EERO

[Lee Janotta]

[...], Dale Coyne has _always_ run an underfunded operation, and has usually relied on support from drivers. This is _not_ a new thing, Dale's been running CART teams off and on for years! So no, there's no real plan for the growth of the team! This is a rent-a-racer operation, plain and simple.

Lee, may I remind you of the rule to attack the Post and Not the Poster. This is over the line.

-EERO

[Jay]

I don't know what kind of problems the people that object to Alex Yoong being in Cart have. So he brought some personal cash, would you rather the car not race at all? Because if he hadn't brought the cash 18 cars would have started in Mexico!

And for all the fuss, he did a pretty good job, finishing 10th, keeping his nose clean and not causing any problems. If I were Coyne, I'd be happy to have him back. And remember, the alternative is Coyne running a 1 car team.

[Lee Janotta]

Yeah, I agree Jay, and I grudgingly except his presence and his money being in the series... And to his credit, he gave a pretty good account of himself in Monterrey. But I'm _not_ going to applaud the man's lack of driving talent until I see something dramatically better than the hopelessly mediocre performances he's turned in his whole career.

[Jukebox]

Lee...i for one feel and share the same sentiment as you do when he first joined Minardi to race in F1 last year and if you trace my replies in the F1 forum those words i've used ain't pretty either. But then, i changed my perspective as it was known and a fact that PS made him the second priority since the team can't afford to upgrade two cars....so he gave all the best equipments to his countryman.

He had all sorts of technical and mechanical glitches throughout the season. He did made an impressive stint at the Lotus historical race last year and this year with the fact that without any test at all in a champcar, yet he managed to finish in a respectable position with a low budgeted team.

[corkholio]

Originally posted by Rick Gorne
Your responses are curious, you claim that recognised drivers should flock to Dale Coyne Racing, yet in the same breath say that the team owner wont go looking for sponsorship.

Based on the above, every driver running for that team is likely to be a pay driver, unless invited by the team like Yoong seems to have been at Monterrey.

The logic of this escapes me, how does a team progress if the driver coming to them is the money sourcer, how does a racing business spend the time increasing its resources, its people, its infrastructure when the whole thing in your explanation is dependent on drivers finding the commercial partners rather than the team

Either there is an element of incorrectness in what you are saying, or the team doesnt regard its future development as important

Imagine being a driver at DCR and not knowing whether the team has the dollars to finish the year if you have a crash.... not my cup of tea.

[...] I never said anything about "recognised drivers flocking to DCR". As for development, when was the last time you saw a Coyne car on the podium? Alex Barron almost won for them in 2000 (as an injury replacement for Kurosawa meaning that the sponsorship was secure) and what happens? He gets dropped for 2001 because he couldn't find a check big enough to fit in Coyne's wallet. Any knowledgable CART fan knows Coyne runs a rent-a-ride operation.


ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER -EERO

[True Believer]

[...]
You guys sit on your computers as experts [...] and have never pulled on a nomex suit in your lives.

And for some reason, you have singled out this guy and slammed everything he has ever done.

What has he done to hurt you?? Has he taken your job? Is that what this is about, a racial issue perhaps?

Edited for incendiary remarks EERO

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by True Believer
Quote Edited because its Flame bait and the bait was taken

[...]
And yes, with fewer years under my belt than your hero Alex Yoong, I've accomplished something that was recognized by several newswriters and the president of Speed Channel. It's nothing earth-shattering, but at 21 years, with still a few years to go in my education, I'm quite proud of it. So click the home page link by my name, you'll be suprised.

[...]

Edited or incendiary remarks -EERO

[True Believer]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
Quote edited because it was flame bait

Attack the post and not the Poster EERO

[Lee Janotta]

Hey, a disciple's a disciple, I'll take them any way I can... You seem to have the whole "blind loyalty" thing down.

[05forever]

Wow - Lee has written a petition. That just makes anyone who has raced F1 and CART at any level pale into insignificance. What next Lee an article for your college newspaper on the evils of Asian drivers.

Lee I have met and spent considerable time with Alex and members of the Minardi team. He is a professional and knowledgeable driver and a pleasure to be around. He had confidence issues last year but they were linked to things like being told if you break any bits you cant race because we dont have spares. Having come back and not having those problems anylonger he did quite respectable times compared to his "hot" teammate. He is not any Schumacher but nor does he claim to be.

Get over your grudge

[macdaddy]

You forgot to mention that Lee has started a good petition.

[f1manoz]

I think Yoong did an admirable job for a guy who only arrived in Mexico a day or two before the race having never sat in a ChampCar before. He finished 9th, not far off the pace and beat his team-mate. What else did some of you people want, Yoong to be instantly mixing it with PT and Bruno???

[05forever]

Sorry, Mac credit where credit is due. It does look like a good petition for a noble cause.

[Lee Janotta]

05forever, thanks.

Now let me be clear here. I don't have some "agenda" or "vendetta" against Alex Yoong, as asian drivers as a group. Honestly, I rather think Takuma Sato deserves a shot in Champcars.

My impressions of Alex Yoong as a man have been nothing but favorable, and your experience seems to confirm that.

What I am frustrated by and rather despise is the way that that significant corporate backing has allowed him to, from my perspective, jump several rungs on the ladder and, with a _very_ mediocre record, when _very_ strong arguments could be made in favor of any number of drivers who, judging by their own-track success even directly against Mr. Yoong, were _much_ more deserving.

Were I in Alex's position, I expect I probably would do much the same as him, and take the money and the opportunities it gives. BUT, I would also be prepared to accept the criticism which would inevitably come my way.

Alex may still yet proove to be a competent driver. But his Minardi performance last year made him look like nothing but a rank amaeture, he was just plain SLOW... And it's a lot easier to make a fast driver consistent, than a slow driver fast. And his record prior to last year, in the feeder series, is likewise dismal, and dozens of more accomplished drivers, perhaps hundreds even, were passed over because they did not have anything resembling the level of funding Alex has.

As for the constant allegations of racism... Has Asia produced more than their fair share of incompetent pay drivers? Yes. Hiro Matsu****a, Taki Inoue, Shinji Nakano, and Hideki Noda just to start the list... Plus there was that guy from the Phillipines who ran a couple seasons in CART in the late '80s, absolutely hopeless behind the wheel of a race car.

Now, do I tend to think the same about new Asian drivers? Admittedly, yes. It would foolish not to do so... Perception is shaped by experience.

But do I close my mind off totally to the idea that an Asian driver could actually be good? No. Tora Takagi actually isn't _that_ bad, and I think Takuma Sato could still be something special. Alex? Well, we'll see...

I'm certainly not the only one who has preconceptions about drivers... American drivers, excellent in the '60s, are now mostly where they are due to nepitism, usually the sons, nephews, or grandsons of previous racers. Enzo Ferrari himself said Italian drivers were too passionate. Brazilian racers tend to be overhyped, due to a fantastic propaganda machine in the Brazilian motorsport press. They do tend to produce very high quality drivers, though, so while often the hype is unrealistic, many of their drivers _do_ deserve some level of hype.