Where would TGF Place on This Grid?

[Valve Bounce]

I am not that fond of organ music - I would definitely prefer a really good violinist playing Mozart. But that would cloud my judgement about the music played by the two organists and their respective abilities, wouldn't it?

[eatapc]

Liz, the analogy of an organist to a race driver who has to row the gears while driving works for me. But the comparison with the computer controlled synth falls apart. First, the programming an F1 driver does with the buttons on the steering wheel must happen quickly, repeatedly and perfectly in order to achieve fast lap times. It's not like programming a synth or sequencer at all. Second, I see the modern driver more like a concert pianist: He may not have as many keyboards to deal with, but the one he has can be played faster and with a different kind of control, power and expressiveness than a church organ.

[angst]

ttc

There's a REASON why he's in F1 racing with less than 20 races and you're NOT. Figured out why yet?

Yes, he's a more talented driver than I. He's amore talented driver than most.

Good. Your point?

Read my posts again. He said that the Sauber was easier to drive than his FRenault, a winning car I should add. You would not find a driver from the 60's, 70's or 80's climbing into a F1 car after 20 races in a junior formula saying that their F1 car is easier to drive than their FF/FF200/FVee/FSVee/F3.

Ever drove CROSS COUNTRY? >8hrs behind the wheel? Lots eh?

Ever TRIED spending 30mins on a 6G-pulling roller coaster?
ttc quote:

I used to work in quarry. I used to cycle the 10 miles to the quarry and work an 8 hour day, sometimes that would involve nothing more taxing than swinging a sledgehammer to smash up large slabs into smaller slabs for use as building stone. I would then cycle the 10 miles home - up hill and down both ways. Although this work kept me extremely fit it did not make me a skilled worker.

Liz
I like your analogy of the organ player. Both are musicians, but if one had to learn the other's skill, which would find it easier?

[Red]

Okay, but did you try to spend 30 mins in a 6g rollercoaster? Looks easy... 30 mins... piece of cake.

[angst]

Let me try and clarify that point again. If I want to watch athletes I will watch athletics. If I want to watch good close ball control then I would watch football. If I want to watch driving skills at their peak then I should watch motor racing. If the only thing that makes the cars of today difficult to drive is the physical effort involved then a few hours in the gym each day would put the drivers from past eras in a very good position to drive the modern cars. The skills that were involved in driving cars from previous eras (gear changing, throttle control, overtaking etc. etc.) would need to be honed by the modern driver to allow him to get anywhere near the pace that previous era drivers could manage (that is not to say they couldn't do it, merely that the skills needed then, as opposed to physical fitness, were greater.)
A suitable analogy would be premiership football. If George Best or Eddie Gray were to play today (obviously a George Best/Eddie Gray at their peak) then he would need to be a lot fitter to keep pace with the modern game. George Best and Eddie Gray could get themselves fitter. A player without their talent but super fit cannot gain that talent (though he can improve his own with work).

[zealot]

There's lots of discussion about the fitness of today's drivers.

Well, in 1979, they were darn good athletes, too. True, James Hunt was known for his, let's call it, extravagent lifestyle. But he wasn't the rule. Remember, just two years after the 1979 Long Beach GP that started this thread, Jody Scheckter won the annual World's Best Athlete Made-For-TV contest, an event that usually included football players, track athletes, etc.

[TimD]

Welcome to the forum, Zealot - intriguing username...!

Well remembered with the "Superstars" TV show - I'd completely forgotten that Jody won it. I do recall that James Hunt took part in that, and he was not so shabby, either, although his eye for target shooting, archery and penalty kicking compensated a great deal for any deficit in speed and stamina.

He did also play showcase tennis with Bjorn Borg...


Valve Bounce - sorry, should have got back to you. I'm looking into your request, and I shall PM what I find. If it looks promising, I'll start a thread, too. Rest assured I haven't forgotten about it!

[ttc]

Originally posted by angst
Let me try and clarify that point again. If I want to watch athletes I will watch athletics.

So you believe you can endure 30mins of 6G roller coastering IF you are SUPER fit? Maybe, maybe not, depending on your mental stamina too.

Add to that that your life depended on YOU steering the ROLLER COASTER in the right direction. Hey, nothing to it, fly-by-wire controls. Just make sure you STAY ON TRACK.

Oh, then add another 21 more guys doing the same thing in front and behind of you.

Oh, but don't worry, you'll have all the telementry data you need for your ride.

Oh, didn't someone mentioned that there are now CHICANES to slow down the MAX speed of the roller coasters? Make sure you take note of where they are.

Sounds easy, no? Try it.

[zealot]

Sounds easy, no? Try it. [/B][/QUOTE]


I'll have you know I just came from 22n on the grid to win the the Canadian Grand Prix on my Playstation!!!!! (And I was driving a Bennetton, HA!)

[JeremySmith]

Really dear boy, what are we going to do with you?







Welcome to our "wonderful" forum

[angst]

So ttc,Ishould judge a driver's ability on the width of his neck and how far he can run without getting out of breath?

I tend to judge on driving skill. And again, you haven't addresses what Kimi said. These aren't my views, these are the views of a driver. Also Jenson Button, on his drive of a vintage Renault, said that all that F1 driver's basically do now is steer the things.

[enemy-ace]

In reference to Kimi Raikonnen

Originally posted by ttc

There's a REASON why he's in F1 racing with less than 20 races and you're NOT. Figured out why yet?

I'm thinking good management, and right place, right time!

[drexel]

So Kimi said it's easier to drive. That's got nothing to do with the issue your trying to argue. I would think F1 cars with their budget should be easier to drive then one of the lesser classes, just like any new model car these days is easier to drive than the older model.

He didn't actually say it was easy to beat the other drivers out there did he, (drivers who have all the same benefits he does). It hasn't been that easy for him to beat Heidfeld has it. Kimi's got potential but i think those Ferrari engines are making them 2 guys look a bit better than they are ATM. He's stepped up to F1, he hasn't stepped up to WDC level just yet.

It seems your trying to say that they should make them as difficult as possible to drive. Just stick the engine on the back of 1960's Beetle and call it F1. They will definately find it tougher but does that mean they are automatically better drivers than those from other eras, I'd doubt it.

[eatapc]

Kimi at today's press conference:

Q: Kimi, last weekend you had a strange weekend in Zurich I think.
Kimi Raikkonen: Yes. I had two PR days and then two something else a bit boring.
Q: So what were you doing, there was a soap box race or something?
KR: It was a personal appearance. Just for the children, it was nice to see the little kids there had something to do. I also tried one of their little carts but didn't do too well. Not so quick.

OK, I'm convinced now. Today's F1 drivers suck. I bet Senna wouldn't have let those little kids beat him. Let's see what other drivers do in soap box racers -- that'll separate the wheat from the chaff!

[ttc]

Originally posted by angst
So ttc,Ishould judge a driver's ability on the width of his neck and how far he can run without getting out of breath?

I tend to judge on driving skill. And again, you haven't addresses what Kimi said. These aren't my views, these are the views of a driver. Also Jenson Button, on his drive of a vintage Renault, said that all that F1 driver's basically do now is steer the things.

I don't like to make it personal, but man, you are thick, aren't you?

Yes, it's BASICALLY steering, ever SINCE the very first car was manufactured, or didn't you notice that?

A 5 year-old child can easily steer his/her toy car, but WOULD YOU let him/her steer your Civic, Mercedes, Porsche or Ferrari while travelling 60mph/100kpm on the road?

Again, you IGNORED the main point. The RACING MACHINE is DIFFERENT now, it's NOT the 60's, 70's or even the 80's. There's a reason there are VINTAGE races - for those of you who like to reminiscence the "good old days".

If it was REALLY that easy, wouldn't Prost still be racing? Or Stewart? Hell, don't tell me they can't steer.

Note that I'm IN NO WAY saying that the drivers of the PAST eras are any worse, just simply that the skill set demands are different. That however do not make light of the driving skills of any of the current crop of F1 drivers.