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28 Jul 2007, 12:06 (Ref:1975261) | #51 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2005
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Here's soemthing for you - Its an ex-Listerine BTCC E36, currently for sale, situated in Australia. (the picture is from the box of a model, so its not a current pic).
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewlisting.php?view=8262 Is it possible that this is (at least the shell, if not the running gear aswell) for the VLR car that Longhurst brought in for the AGP? |
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28 Jul 2007, 13:33 (Ref:1975287) | #52 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2001
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...and the ex-Menu Prodrive car for sale in Norway
http://www.racecarsdirect.com/viewli...php?view=10922 |
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28 Jul 2007, 22:32 (Ref:1975484) | #53 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 383
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Excellent effort there KA- the only worrying thing is that is only 1987 so far, and that there was another 5 (or 6 in NZ and Australia) years of competition left in this car!
And as you said " With the sheer number of M3s built, this is probably going to be even bigger than the 635 thread." The CiBiEmme car mentioned in the 1987 Bathurst annual that mark Petch bought is still here in NZ, part way through a restoration I believe. There are several other noteworthy M3's here, but this is the only 1987 car so I won't confuse things at this stage. One of the Alpina cars was on their website until recently, on display in their showroom,still in original livery, but their website seems to have been changed and I cannot find the pic any more. |
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28 Jul 2007, 22:56 (Ref:1975491) | #54 | ||
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29 Jul 2007, 00:48 (Ref:1975513) | #55 | ||
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29 Jul 2007, 09:05 (Ref:1975635) | #56 | ||
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29 Jul 2007, 09:29 (Ref:1975650) | #57 | ||
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Quote:
WTCC round results: http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...ellington.html |
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29 Jul 2007, 09:42 (Ref:1975665) | #58 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 383
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Aaah, my mistake, forgot there were two races in 1987!...... That was the January race where Longhurst was in a 325i and Richards was in a 635i. Went to a lot of these races, and was watching some old video footage of the 1987 race- forgot that there was two that year! Those were fantastic races, such a mixture of cars, many capable of winning.
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29 Jul 2007, 12:24 (Ref:1975740) | #59 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2001
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Don't suppose you've got any video or pics from the Wellington WTCC round?
I'm puzzled by the M3 entries, particularly the Longhurst/Heger car. I can't figure out whether this was Longhurst joining one of the European cars, or Heger and Longhurst in a locally-entered car. From the results listed in the link I posted, the European M3 lineups at Wellington were:
The two M3s from Bathurst obviously missing from the Wellington results are the CiBiEmme car sold to Mark Petch, and the Brabham/Fangio BMW Motorsport car run by Schnitzer or CiBiEmme. I wonder if Longhurst/Heger were in either of these cars, maybe the ex-CiBiEmme car entered by Petch? |
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29 Jul 2007, 12:55 (Ref:1975748) | #60 | ||
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Perhaps you can heklp me brown dog, I'm told my car was second at Wellington in 1989, can you verify this? John Sax Racing.
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"The past is knowledge, the present our mistake, the future we always leave too late" Paul Weller (The Style Coulcil) |
29 Jul 2007, 21:01 (Ref:1975966) | #61 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Hello David,
I went to this race, and memory tells me that Schnitzer came in #1 and #2. But as my memory has faded a bit, I had a quick look at some old video footage I have of that race, and it confirms what I thought. Schnitzer came in 1-2 with Ravaglia/Pirro in first car, and Soper/Giroix in second place. This is confirmed on Frank De Jong website, which lists the John Sax car finishing in 14th place. http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...ellington.html Another thread going which you will be interested in: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...+a+bmw+chassis |
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29 Jul 2007, 21:17 (Ref:1975977) | #62 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Funny you ask, I have some footage of the Wellington races, and have just borrowed a pile more footage from a friend, which I am going to transfer to DVD in the next few weeks. Some of the quality is pretty average, but it still makes for an interesting watch! I went to a lot of these races, and they were just as exciting live as they were on TV, which can't be said about all motor racing today!
I don't know if there is anythng in there from the 1987 race(s) I will have to play it all to see.In addition, on that link you posted,Cecotto and Brancatelli were driving a CiBiEmme car,(which I can remember) but I cannot tell you for sure which cars Graeme Lorimer/John Sax and Trevor Crowe/Jim Richards were driving- perhaps David Towe can throw some light on this? I should be able to find out if the Mark Petch car ran there. Last edited by brown dog; 29 Jul 2007 at 21:23. |
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30 Jul 2007, 01:41 (Ref:1976057) | #63 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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I have M3-1-177 As far as I can ascertain, this was one of four originally supplied by BMW Germany to BMW France in parts at a cost of 220000 Euros. The car was modified beyond Group A for the French Super Tourism Championships and driven by Michel Ferte to second place in 1990 and 5th in 1991. At the end of 1991 the car was badly damaged and required a complete rebuild which included a new bodyshell and all the latest homoligated parts. I do not know what the chassis number of the original car was. I know of a Prodrive car here which also has a M3-1 Chassis number somewhere in the mid 140's if I remember correctly. I also have another M3 that did not use a M3-1-XXXX chassis number which was built in 1990 by Bervid Motorsport in Hungary and driven by Josef Venc. It raced in one DTM race meeting at Brno in 1990 as well as winning the Czech Touring Car Championship in 1990.
Last edited by grelley; 30 Jul 2007 at 01:43. |
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30 Jul 2007, 03:53 (Ref:1976075) | #64 | ||
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Quote:
The car was built in Feb 1988. Raced in ETCC 1988, drivers were Ravaglia, Giroix,Pirro,Van De Poele,Grohs,Oestreich. Then sent to NZ, won '88 Wellington/Pirro&Ravaglia, 2nd at Pukekohe/VandePoele, then Fuji, Japan/DNF/Heger&Pirro, then a win at Macau/Nov 88/Altfrid Heger. Car returned to Europe, sold Feb 1989 to France. |
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30 Jul 2007, 05:02 (Ref:1976088) | #65 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 383
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just got a thread going over here for chassis numbers, it would be great if you could put some details here on your car:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98823 A HUGE task, but we are trying to get together all the chassis # of the "works" built cars. |
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30 Jul 2007, 05:05 (Ref:1976089) | #66 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 383
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Stephen,
just got a thread going over here for chassis numbers, it would be great if you could put some details here on your car: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98823 A HUGE task, but we are trying to get together all the chassis # of the "works" built cars. |
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30 Jul 2007, 05:20 (Ref:1976092) | #67 | |||
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Posts: 295
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Quote:
This car was owned by Paul Pickett as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. It was never used by Longhurst. I would like to find the car that was converted by Longhurst, if it ever happened? I cant remember hearing anything about it at the time it was upposed to have happened. Most of the B&H stuff was sold to indonesea, one car to Cameron McLean which he put to good use. Maybe Campbell Little could shed some light, if he reads the forum. I think he was at B&H at that time. |
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30 Jul 2007, 05:41 (Ref:1976096) | #68 | |||
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Quote:
This may be incorrect, but I seem to remember two M3s arriving in Australia after Bathurst in time for the Calder WTCC event. One was the Thomas von Loewis of Menar/Prince Leopold von Bayern car, but I suspect that the other was to replace the chassis savaged by Ravaglia on top of the Mountain (even though that chassis was repaired by TAFE and started the race with Oestereich/Ratzenberger/Heger). Who used this car - if this happened at all - I'm not sure. |
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30 Jul 2007, 10:16 (Ref:1976261) | #69 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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At the Wellington WTCC race in '87 Heger and Longhurst were in the second CiBiEmme car #41 backed by Lockwood,they finished 7th.
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30 Jul 2007, 10:39 (Ref:1976274) | #70 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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To Grelley:My notes indicate that the Ferte/Horizon car was in more modified Supertourisme trim and certainly in '91 was fitted with a 2.7 litre engine.Ferte did indeed come 5th in that years series but I have no record of the car having had a big crash that would require a re-shell despite having all that seasons results.I note however that the team did not race at Ledenon or Nogaro so there could have been a testing crash which could explain things? At the end of the season,the team disbanded and BMW France now ran a two car team for Ferte and Jean-Pierre Malcher.There cars were new and built to full DTM spec'.I know that the car you say is the ex-Ferte/Horizon car was for sale for some time in Switzerland in September '05 for 57,000Euros at www.carclassic.com Is this where you acquired it from? The car was exactly as it had raced back in '91.
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30 Jul 2007, 11:15 (Ref:1976286) | #71 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 274
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For Grelley: Your second car is a little more problematic!! The Bervid Motorsport team was from Czeckoslovakia (now the Czeck Republic) not Hungary.They ran a car for Vaclav Bervid himself while at the same time Josef Venc (also Czeck) ran a second team which I have always thought were completely separate.The starting date you give for this car is incorrect as there was no Brno DTM race in '90 and the first record of either Bervid or Venc racing an M3 did not occur until Bervid drove a newly built Group A car at Spa'91,#3,9th,in Bastos trim.He also ran a car(I do not think it was this one) in the '91 Czeck series,he was champion. I do not think either of these teams cars were originally self built but were in fact bought from other teams and then prepared by them.Venc did not start racing an M3 until '92. There is also possible confusion in that a third Czeck based team had started running M3's earlier.That was the Vanicek team and they tended to lease cars on a race by race basis to whoever came up with the cash! If you can tell me anything more about this car,perhaps where you got it from or any paint details I should be able to give you more info'. Ian.
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30 Jul 2007, 11:38 (Ref:1976307) | #72 | ||
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Quote:
Last edited by brown dog; 30 Jul 2007 at 11:42. |
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30 Jul 2007, 12:06 (Ref:1976336) | #73 | ||
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Have I go the year wrong, could it have been 88? I have no info re the Wellington races to check this.
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"The past is knowledge, the present our mistake, the future we always leave too late" Paul Weller (The Style Coulcil) |
30 Jul 2007, 20:14 (Ref:1976658) | #74 | |||
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30 Jul 2007, 21:15 (Ref:1976710) | #75 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2005
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Ian, re the Ferte Horizon car, yes the car was the one advertised on the Swiss website. It was Jean-Pierre Malcher who apparently crashed the car. I received confirmation of this from Pipo Moteurs as they aslo rebuilt the 2.7 litre engine at this time. Certainly going by the condition of the bodyshell it appears that it has not been raced since. Re the Czech car, it was built in Prague by Bervid Motorsport, and was a sister car to the one built for Vaclav Bervid. When I purchased the car I checked on Josef Venc and it stated that he was Czech Touring car champion in 1990 in an M3 so I put 2 and 2 together. They did build a DTM car for the following season in which Venc competed, but I am sure they did the race at Brno in 1990 in this car. It was painted the same as his DTM car, white with light blue stripes along the side. Although it is an Evo Sport 2.5 litre, it uses the earlier Group A suspension set up.
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Tags |
atcc, bigazzi, bmw m3, btcc, cibiemme, dtm, e30, etcc, frank gardner, group a, linder, prodrive, ravaglia, schnitzer |
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