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7 Jul 2006, 08:19 (Ref:1650102) | #51 | ||
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I'm not sure which of those is scarier!
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7 Jul 2006, 17:21 (Ref:1650398) | #52 | |||
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But think about it,these Audi's were really very,very though cars. I've seen the R8's hit barriers or concrete walls on several ocassions one of which was between Indianapolis and Arnage corner. The impact was so great it would've certainly totalled any normal car,but the thing was virtually unscathed! It didn't even go in for a check up... |
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7 Jul 2006, 18:21 (Ref:1650437) | #53 | |||
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Did no-one else see this then? No other car, no spectator, no marshal, no TV. We have a good deal of marshals on 10-10ths who do the 24 hours. And you are accusing the ACO of covering this up and Goh too, you are suggesting thy knowlingly put people at risk. This is serious stuff. I can find no report of this whatsoever of even a hint. I need to find some more reports of the morning warm-up, but so far nothing. I'm happy to concede if proven, but until then the accusation must be defended as false with no proof. Sorry it is still hearsay, at best. What was the support race in '03? Round about then we used to watch warm and the support race from Indianapolis. *off to check* |
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7 Jul 2006, 20:10 (Ref:1650512) | #54 | ||
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I'm pretty sure there was an R8 flip too - but I heard it was at night and it was a Porsche driver who saw it. Not sure of the year.
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7 Jul 2006, 21:47 (Ref:1650557) | #55 | ||
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Two of them then! Everyone except me has seen one, are we sure they weren't UFOs?
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8 Jul 2006, 03:23 (Ref:1650637) | #56 | |||
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Obi |
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8 Jul 2006, 07:45 (Ref:1650677) | #57 | ||
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This flip during warm-up in 2003, I also heard absolutely nothing about it. We were standing on the banking on the outside of the Dunlop corner for the first twenty minutes then walked back down the hill to opposite the Audi Pits for the remainder. My memory's not the best, but I have no recollection of any unexpected activity in the Audi Sport Japan pit. I just don't understand why such an incident would be hushed up, nor how it has been so successfully hushed up for the last three years. I'm very, very doubtful about this.......... |
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8 Jul 2006, 08:17 (Ref:1650684) | #58 | ||
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I can find no refrence to the flip either in Teissedre/Moity book for 2003 either.
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8 Jul 2006, 11:02 (Ref:1650778) | #59 | ||
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I do recall rumours of this R8 flip - from 2002 if I remember rightly. I was at the track listening to Radio Le Mans during first qualifying I think. The Goh Audi suffered a big crash (following a tyre blow-out?) on the run to the first chicane and took no further part in that session.
I didn't see this, but I heard the crash reports on RLM, which were later reported as a rumoured flip observed by a GT driver (might well have been the Spyker as it was there in '02). This was later thoroughly denied by Audi/Goh, and there was no confirmation from any GT driver, or any other observer. Possible the rumours developed from flying bodywork following impact with the barriers? The crash seemingly badly affected Goh's weekend, qualifying well down, way off the pace of the works cars, and having a fairly poor race finishing behind the Bentley and ORECA Dallaras, though admittedly without as much factory support as in later years, and with a mixed bag of drivers. |
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8 Jul 2006, 11:35 (Ref:1650791) | #60 | ||
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8 Jul 2006, 18:08 (Ref:1650942) | #61 | ||
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Regarding the R8 flip, I can't recall the year but I remember during the Eurosport commentary Martin Haven mention that the car got sideways and very nearly flipped over, but not quite. I assume the car probably got airboure with either the left or right side pointing skywards.
Obi |
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9 Jul 2006, 10:57 (Ref:1651246) | #62 | ||
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It's good to finally get to know more details of this incident. It's allways been very vague what really happened.
There are just to many people who were talking of a big mishap to this R8. And allthough it is ofcourse hearsay as long as nothing has been proven by eyewitnesses or images,you never know who knew who at what places. Maybe the marshall posts at that point were all french?...and the ACO were good friends with these guys? Who knows. |
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9 Jul 2006, 15:18 (Ref:1651336) | #63 | |||||||
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I am intrigued, but I need more than this. And I am uncomfortable with the ease that the lack of information is disregarded and the ease at which allegations are banded around. It is the scourge of the internet. |
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9 Jul 2006, 17:18 (Ref:1651456) | #64 | ||
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Absolutely right, Adam. First of all it was supposed to have happened in 2004 but that was easily refuted; then it was possibly 2003, but 'no' it seems not. Now, it seems 2002 could be the year. It's all so vague and it has to be a pretty big cover up by quite a lot of people to create this situation. As you say, we are not saying it didn't happen, merely that we have so far seen no real evidence. It certainly hasn't been cleared up, at all!
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9 Jul 2006, 19:00 (Ref:1651592) | #65 | |||||
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I had a few minutes and did some digging and I have found something. It is all a cover-up! Well actually not, unless the ACO forgot to tell Autosport. I presume this is what we are talking about:
http://www.autosport-atlas.com/article.asp?id=19416 Quote:
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A perfect example of careless easy talk here. A sizeable crash it was. However we have gone from this to a flip that covered up by the ACO and marshals. And I was considering contacting the Guiness book of records to get it entered as the longest flight by a car at over three years! |
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9 Jul 2006, 19:07 (Ref:1651604) | #66 | |||
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A little more detail:
It was the first chicane as EspritS3 mentioned. In fact EspritS3 is pretty close to what happened EspritS3 (and Obi Offiah), I apologise for not paying more attention to your post, it just got lost in the other posts - so difficult to tell the difference between fact and fiction which is the danger. As said it was also Wednesday night, not warm-up. Here are a couple of extracts from Club Arnage's 2002 Wednesday night. Quote:
The important thing here is that there is no evidence of a cover-up. As I said I was uncomfortable with that libelous accusation. Last edited by Adam43; 9 Jul 2006 at 19:11. |
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9 Jul 2006, 21:59 (Ref:1651773) | #67 | ||
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Thanks for that Adam - been looking for a report from qualifying to confirm my recollection of 2002. As you say, it's too easy for a rumour to develop into an "event" without any facts to back it up, so I'm glad this puts it to bed.
But back to the original point of this thread - it would be a terrible shame to place futher restrictions on engine power and top speed in order to keep lap times around 3:30 - if only aerodynamic downforce could be uninvented! Certainly for me, a large reason for my interest in sportscar racing was the speed. Back in the late 80s, Group C cars were the fastest (in a straight line) beating even indycar oval machinery, and for me then, fastest was the best! Be it clips from Steve McQueen's Le Mans with the Gulf 917s/Ferrari 512s howling round the Mulsanne Kink, or Jaguar XJR-9 in Silk Cut colours flashing past the bar/restaurant before where the first chicane now is, these images formed my interest, and I now struggle to hide my dissapointment with current cars barely hitting 200mph. Only wish my first visit to Le Mans could have been pre Dunlop Chicane, pre Mulsanne Chicane, pre excessive catch fencing - thank heavens I made it there before they ruined the viewing from the Restaurant des 24 Heures on the run to the first chichane. But lets face it, its still (for me) the best track in the world, with the most varied and interesting cars - we don't have it that bad. |
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10 Jul 2006, 20:43 (Ref:1652846) | #68 | ||
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I stand corrected. And withdraw any accusasions I might've made.
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10 Jul 2006, 21:10 (Ref:1652888) | #69 | ||
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I was worried about the lawers!
Fears of a new chicane are strong at the moment though. Especially on the way down to Indianapolis |
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11 Jul 2006, 07:04 (Ref:1653151) | #70 | ||
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11 Jul 2006, 09:25 (Ref:1653215) | #71 | ||
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My point was more that people are still edgey about it and passions are running high. Sorry.
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11 Jul 2006, 16:08 (Ref:1653633) | #72 | ||
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My fear also,for I still don't think much of the ACO. It seems they wanna make Le Mans 100% safe,which is not only rediculous but impossible as well.
I mean,how long ago was the last fatal crash at Le Mans? Isn't that allmost ten years ago? Driving your own car in everyday traffic is more dangerous then racing on a track nowadays... Don't get me wrong,I absolutely regret fatal accidents in this sport but isn't that a risc that "comes with the package" ? |
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12 Jul 2006, 14:58 (Ref:1654539) | #73 | ||
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personally i hate the A.C.O they have changed the track so much that you cant really get close to the cars when they are racing and going past at high speed just look at the run down to the esses i used to love it when it was a straight run down but now its a huge s bend with an endless sea of gravel to boot and you get a rollocking from the gendermes if you go and spectate on the mulsanne or on the run down to indianapolis which is a must if you go to lemans and the ecology award as well and slowing the cars down is really starting to tick me off quite a lot recently.
i just done get the green exology award for the race, its motorsport A.C.O were the idea is to build the fastest car by any means necesarry motorsport is not who has the cleanest and most enviromentally friendly car the A.C.O with that in mind might as well be called greenpeace or as i call them greenboogers for stopping racing at monza since all they seem to be is a bunch of moaners with nothing better to do and have no idea what the hell they are on about!! phew sorry guys got that off my chest and i wont mention noise restrictors as i would not like to use lots of bad language as noise restrictors in racing are the bain of my life and my worst enemy |
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12 Jul 2006, 16:15 (Ref:1654601) | #74 | |||
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12 Jul 2006, 16:30 (Ref:1654613) | #75 | |
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'i just done get the green exology award for the race, its motorsport A.C.O were the idea is to build the fastest car by any means necesarry motorsport is not who has the cleanest and most enviromentally friendly car the A.C.O with that in mind might as well be called greenpeace or as i call them greenboogers for stopping racing at monza since all they seem to be is a bunch of moaners with nothing better to do and have no idea what the hell they are on about!!'
No use building the fastest car for Le Mans, without great fuel consumption. Any motor racing that does not have a relevance to real world motoring will be extint in the next 15 years. 'and the ecology award as well and slowing the cars down is really starting to tick me off quite a lot recently.' Other than this year, when we saw the most powerful (since restrictor racing), quickest, most fuel efficient, and most technically advanced prototype ever! Last edited by JAG; 12 Jul 2006 at 16:35. |
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