Expansion of an existing track:Sabana Seca Challenge

[LuiggiSpeed]

ahaha thanks guys for keeping it up! btw,wich direction,nickyF1?

[nickyf1]

Clockwise

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

Clockwise

OK, I had a concern about a certain turn,but if run CW that should give no problem.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Now, I presented the plans to the track owner,and a concern has rise,about a residential complex that is located just north-east, very close to the track,roughly at 100m ,so that a noise concern might be.

I want (us) to think of a way in wich the vehicles would be either decelerating when approaching that area, maybe a certain combination of corners that will keep the revs down until they open up pointing their exhausts elsewhere.

C'mon, it's a simple challenge that I'm sure we can come up with a solution.

Other than that complaints from the residents may shut down the proyect.

[mattt]

a suggestion for an alternative top section

[bio]

Matt,

that would leave barely any room for a gravel pit at the hairpin - and I don't think it would be wise not to place one there...

Not to mention that such a long sweeper might not be the best choice for a bike track - I mean if you care about the riders, right, Luiggi? ...

[mattt]

maybe bring it back abit, it was just a case of what could be, not a practical one

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Any high revving approach is going to result in "banging" out the back of a racing motorbike as it's electronics cut the sparks etc. It would be very difficult to avoid noise.
Even if a quite approach is possible, by the space that there is, it's going to be a big handful of noisy revs away from that corner.

I know this as I've spent the weekend being deafened at the British Superbike meeting at my local track... Knockhill

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by mattt

a suggestion for an alternative top section

It's sort of that,,if run CW, roughly what I had in mind exept for your now classic ultra-incredibly-tight-matt's-corner.Take a look at the car coming thru the acces road,right at the tip of the corner and it would barely fit thru, much tighter than the Monaco hairpin.Other than that , it would keep the approaching bikes toned down,indeed,and when accelerating,they would be facing the correct side,but then they had enough room for wide open throttle.If it was to be CCW then it would increase the problem as we love to crack the throttle when facing such a long sweeper,thus anoying the families on the housing complex. Bio, long sweepers such as that, we love them,as they give us chance to ride the edge for a long time(relatively) and that enables you to really " feel" the corner very well, now when disaster strikes at these conditions,crashes are ussually very epic!

This is some I thought:



The red line means full throttle and so on.I managed to keep bikes coasting or partial throttle by putting a kink after the carrousel,so that we need to negotiate a couple of issues there,before wide open throttle is possible,200m down the road.
Discuss.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Any high revving approach is going to result in "banging" out the back of a racing motorbike as it's electronics cut the sparks etc. It would be very difficult to avoid noise.
Even if a quite approach is possible, by the space that there is, it's going to be a big handful of noisy revs away from that corner.

I know this as I've spent the weekend being deafened at the British Superbike meeting at my local track... Knockhill

So how did Byrne's crash looked like?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by LuiggiSpeed

So how did Byrne's crash looked like?

I was viewing from across the circuit at Clark (or Carlube to give it it's sponsorship) corner, I haven't actually had a chance to see it on TV as yet, as I wasn't home in time for the race replay on Sunday evening, and the highlights aren't until Thursday.

[bio]

Luiggi, I thought you said before that for bikers long sweepers are a real - physical - pain - keeping yourselves off the bike for so long. But it seems I've been mistaken.

All the better, huh?

[nickyf1]

I am loving this challenge Ive come up with a 'snail-shell' style section at the top end which has a preceding tight chicane. Also, some grass banks along the side of the track can help with noise. The track is white and the green lines are the grass banks.

[nickyf1]

40 minutes later... my third go at this. Clockwise again.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by bio

Luiggi, I thought you said before that for bikers long sweepers are a real - physical - pain - keeping yourselves off the bike for so long. But it seems I've been mistaken.

All the better, huh?

Did I say that?

Long sweepers are The Joy for bikers.

Things that are a PITA for bikers are,for example, hard braking areas,or really tight tracks like the one I'm trying to improve. I have raced on wide open tracks and that feels like I die and went straight to Heaven, it's simply a sensation beyond words to feel the g's and the suspenssion being tortured.

Ultra slow,tight corners make you dizzy and are tiring as hell.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

I am loving this challenge Ive come up with a 'snail-shell' style section at the top end which has a preceding tight chicane. Also, some grass banks along the side of the track can help with noise. The track is white and the green lines are the grass banks.

AY ay ay Nicky , I really love your traces, they are very good but your propossed track would awsome if it was 3 times as big. I would love to have that track you just draw but in reality that would be a midget track,since the existing track it's already a dwarf track.(see the pics I attached,they are there not just to show my bike)

Im gonna have to state a new rule:


NO CORNER RADIUS SMALLER THAN ANY OF THE EXISTING ONES (wich are quite tight already).

I'll post some vids taken that Sunday so that you can get a perspective of the size of the facility and why I am so anoyingly obsessed with larger corners and room to breathe,you can only do about 12-15 laps before falling dehidrated or with severe cramps..

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZOoQ5_S_9LY&hl=en&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/ZOoQ5_S_9LY&hl=en&fs=1

http://www.youtube.com/v/eRUAvc5oWxo

http://www.youtube.com/v/1278DTayysU

BTW I have a meeting with the track owner very soon,Ill let you know his opinion on the diferent tracks you guys have posted.

[bio]

Luiggi,
I seriously think you should sit down and trhoroughly think about the sets of criteria over before presenting them to us. This is about the third time the rules have changed...

[nickyf1]

I dont mind, as long as im drawing im happy

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by bio

Luiggi,
I seriously think you should sit down and trhoroughly think about the sets of criteria over before presenting them to us. This is about the third time the rules have changed...

These were the requirements,from the start,I have copied from original post:

1.This one is a karting/super moto track that exists in the neighbourhood,I have rode my 600cc bike there and as it is right now ,it's very
tight,and doesn't have a real straight. The track owner has promised he will expand the track so that bigger life forms can practice and have fun.

I have promised him I would help with the new layout, that I had a couple of friends that are very good on designing track stuff... ...so there you have it.The boundary is the yellow line,that's the land we got,it's pretty small,the track is 1 km long and we need at least 800-1000 more mts.

Keep in mind, (1)the karting section is already tight and twisty,so we need a little bit of flow,mostly. (2)You can connect to the existing track where you see fit,track runs CCW mostly,but that can be changed.



After a bunch of attemps from you friends,in where various ultra tight and impossible corners were thrown in,and the existing track was almost neglected,I made this comment:



2.One thing, although that corner in the upper right hand side looks tight, it is really a blast to ride,somehow it makes for the perfect overtaking spot,please don't get rid of that little part


Third time,after we kept over-riding the existing track:


3.We need to use or not use whatever part but still preserving the integrity of the karting part, I'd just use it as an infield course and then connect the new parts to the new area.



The only rule change I made,after watching the draws,was:

3.I have to warn, over the righ side,theres an area that can't be used,looks like a spot there,thats some dry bed that can't be paved.


I'm not really changing the rules,I am highliting the original parameters of size,and I have given the dimensions,pictures of us riding and my own comments as a guide,but we keep cranking out stuff that really it's not possible to ride.I already stated the existing track is darn tight,so I would kind of think nobody would come out with a 2 feet radius turn or even a 6 feet radius,as those are almost unridable.So I have to remind everyone,once in a while, that we need a bigger track connected to,not an expansion of a tight track by making more tight sections.

.Also, overriding the actual track would increase dramatically the cost of the project,that's why I stated,from the start,that we can connect where you see fit...

I hope that clears out any dobut and I apologyse once again ,I thought the purpose of the exercise was clear.

[nickyf1]

in my last version, I had that tight section at the top to reduce noise like you asked, and added some shortcuts for bigger machinery to drive/ride on. But I will ahve another go.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by nickyf1

in my last version, I had that tight section at the top to reduce noise like you asked, and added some shortcuts for bigger machinery to drive/ride on. But I will ahve another go.

That was cool ,Nicky, like I said, you traces are awesome, maybe your perspective of size was a little off-focus,making those turns like a garage drive-in but I'm sure you got the idea now.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Well well!!

Life and it's circles!

Looks like this year were getting the track finally expanded, after a number of meetings and emails back and forth, the new owner is very happy with the proposal I made. Most of my racing buddies are loving the track plans, and it came out quite simple, so that we actually have bigger corners than the existing ones and a less tiring-more flowing track, with parking space and some other features, such as grandstands on top of the pits and the real chance of splitting the track for motorcycles and go karts. This is it folks, let me know what you think:









Some of the screenshots are from a previous rev, the final one one is the first 3d pic.

The splitting of the track is done by using the upper old karting part with it's bypass and sending the bikes back after the esses on the right thru the fast corner. Pit lane was thought out to work both ways, the track is totally reversible(requirement from owner) and there's plenty of run off where needed.

Comments please.

[Quintin03]

This looks great. Could you include an skp. file too? The esses could do with a bit more run off at the exit when clockwise. I think running the back straight parallel to the front straight and possibly turning the second corner of the esses in this setup to a slightly larger radius would improve it much.

Good luck on this.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by Quintin03

This looks great. Could you include an skp. file too? The esses could do with a bit more run off at the exit when clockwise. I think running the back straight parallel to the front straight and possibly turning the second corner of the esses in this setup to a slightly larger radius would improve it much.

Good luck on this.

Oh my bad, I hadn't finished marking the bottom of the img, we have some 6 meters to before the fence to handle the folks going thru the chicane, but I'm not terribly worried, as it's a slow section, were talking second gear and the race line goes on the inside of the track, so we have the 15 meters of the track + the 6 meter run-off.

As for the second corner, I don't quite understand but I had to tilt the straight a little bit upwards to allow for some 18mt run-off, so that the course can be reversible, hence the crooked look, but it's purely functional.

Here's the uploaded file for you.

Also an updated blueprint.

[LuiggiSpeed]

The karting track and the motorcycle track, running at once.