Formula Ford Junior

[sharkie]

Chris is right , both Herron & McKenna are looking to follow Boyd into UK Duratech,both chassis and drivers are brilliant,but why ask if the engines for sale, go buy a Bold from england....they have won the festival AND walter hayes for the last few years!!!

As for Noel Careys Mygale, think its a bit unfair to call it , it set the quickest time at Kirko this year and Dunne and Fisher sure make em work, think he just couldn't resist getting his old Ray back!

Back on topic, the Junior idea is excellent but don't be confused its aimed at drivers with out a budget to do UK Duratech, it is a new class like it or not, maybe good enough to fill the gap left by BMW if sold properly to the rich and dull karting faternity!

[Barry Pomfret]

The idea leading to the development of this class is an engine which is cheap to run, does not need rebuilding at 1000 miles and will fit in existing chassis ? I'm sure that's where zetec came in, you can buy an engine from Ford for £1000, stick on a dry sump kit and go racing for 3000 miles. How much cheaper do you need it to be? I know the engine is a lump but the Duratecs at the Festival were not much quicker, if you did away with the cast iron exhaust manifold and stuck on a fabricated job as the F4 s do it would make a cheap and reliable club class of Formula Ford (and stick them back on ACB10s with steel rims).

[jimbomit]

Just to add an angle, abandon ACB10's, there are plenty of cheaper better alternatives that would support the ethos of a low cost formula.

If you want to differentiate your product and have a unique angle to the low cost option, why not run a feasibility on the diesel unit?

Just stuff to throw into the bag . . . . !

[FFmygale]

It has been apparent to me for a good while that what is really needed is to find some way of getting the national calss Fford back to a situation where they are comparable in some way to amateur FFord. ie. if we could get all the amateur guys racing against the national class guys in the end of season Festival and Walter Hayes then surely that would be a step forward???

How we achieve this however is a different story! I just don't have the solution.

[itsonlyme]

Originally Posted by FFmygale

It has been apparent to me for a good while that what is really needed is to find some way of getting the national calss Fford back to a situation where they are comparable in some way to amateur FFord. ie. if we could get all the amateur guys racing against the national class guys in the end of season Festival and Walter Hayes then surely that would be a step forward???

How we achieve this however is a different story! I just don't have the solution.

just go back a few years to before zetecs arrived on the scene (sorry zetec owners but thats when ford and brscc ruined ff1600!)

[blue nose]

Originally Posted by itsonlyme

just go back a few years to before zetecs arrived on the scene (sorry zetec owners but thats when ford and brscc ruined ff1600!)

Ste it will not be long before the Duratecs are converted into Kents. There are still plenty of Kent engines all we need are good quality parts.

[brakedisc]

I would suggest that there should be a single racing club for FF similiar to Sports 2000. High membership costs £100 + and go get someone like JEB as the boss. Have ten meetings a year based on FF with UK championship at the top with Zetec and FF1600 involved as well. 2 Day format, 30 min test for the three classes on Sat Morning in sessions depending on entries. Qualify Sat afternoon again in sessions, then 2 races on Sunday. Rules to be stable for 5 years. Benefits are that we deal with circuits as a group, are all together in the one place to have meetings re regulations. We would also have a ladder to climb for both teams and drivers. Equipment would have better re-sale values and with only a couple of days away from home, would win brownie points with the family. With a proper calendar that does not clash with other formulas the Pro teams or could go and try their skills in other classes.

[08u05]

That idea is all well and good, but that takes the drivers away from the people they are trying to impress. We run our lads in Duratecs in front of the F3 guys as that is the next step on the ladder for them, taking them away from that would make their lives more difficult.

[brakedisc]

And how many drivers in UK duratecs will make the move to BF3? More will come from Renault who run with BTCC. Be positive think of the majority not a few who can afford F3

[08u05]

You have to remember a move to the BTCC package was mooted for British Formula Ford, but the thought was to stay with the SRO package for exactly the reason I mentioned above.....

[FFmygale]

Originally Posted by blue nose

Ste it will not be long before the Duratecs are converted into Kents. There are still plenty of Kent engines all we need are good quality parts.

Is that really a step forward???? surely not. There will come a point in the near future where (unless someone starts re-manufacturing bits) Kent engine parts become as rare as rocking horse sheet. Surely the use of a Duratec engine in some form is likey to be the way forward? The issue is how to achieve this without ruining the kent engined championships (which is probably difficult) but is something that needs to be considered.

[blue nose]

I have just got hold of some 90s festival programs "The world cup" if we could bring that back it would be great.

There are plenty of old engines around and still cheap the problem is the rebuild cost. Plus the poor quality parts that are being forced on us.

How big are the Duratec grids.

Early 90s format was the best watchable racing. All this was done with the zetec... remember them.

[JEB]

I read with interest, and I have my own view (obviously).

130 + Kent cars in the WHT prove that the category is still very popular and loved my many. Yes, rising costs are difficult to sustain, as are parts (but they are available) but costs rise in all forms of motorsport.

It must not be forgotten that FF1600 covers all ages of cars (from HSCC to the latest 2008 machines), and no matter how many cars are possibles to be changed - if indeed they are to be - would have a very big knock on all levels of Kent-powered FF1600.

Indeed, if Duratecs were ever to be seen on-track alongside Kents, I know the WHT would never see 130+ cars again. I personally think that would be a great shame.

[08u05]

Can I quickly clear up the fact that Duratecs will never be on track at the same time as Kents, this idea is being mooted as a NEW CHAMPIONSHIP.

[SAMD]

It looks like Duratech for the clubman is not far away.
>
> The sooner the better in my opinion, the top teams running new Kent cars
> are draining away Kent parts faster than anyone else. I cant see our
> cars (pre 90) ever converting, I imagine it would be post 2000 cars at the most that will convert.
>
> The notion that the Irish contingent may go ahead and alter the ruling on crankshaft material and flywheel diameter may well have some merit, but the flywheel is a problem, It needs reduced in diameter to stop it grounding, but this is going to affect performance for one thing, and how do you work the ring gear for another? It will take a fair amount of work to sort this out.
>

[SAMD]

[kartingdad]

Ask the Aussies.

[Tim Draffan]

I think we are looking at two seperate issues simply because pre '90 cars and some later cars would be too dificult to change or the cost will make it prohibitive or the owner is happy to continue with a Kent.
So we need a way forward to provide sensibly priced good quality parts for the Kent engine.
A better quality crank is a no brainer, but are there enough old blocks out there to keep the class going?
And re-smaller diameter flywheels, I fitted a skid plate either side of the the flywheel which prevents it "grounding" a far easier solution thah having to modify the bell housing and starter.

Secondly is there a place for a low cost Duratec class below national Formula Ford?

Well wouldn't it be better for the class if it was low cost to strart with?
Yes some of our better healed clubman would change class and some of the young guns might not be interested in FF1600 but I don't think it would be a threat to the health of FF1600 as it now.

[onenastyviper]

Sorry but as far as I am concerned I do not care what engine is in the back of my car, it's the driving and racing I enjoy.

Do we really go round saying that we are Kent engine formula ford drivers just to differentiate ourselves from 'other' drivers??

What about the latest environmental push by the FIA and MSA for catalytic converters? How long before they become mandated for 'all' racing series making the Kent engine a footnote in history?

As a VD87 owner, I am in two minds about this happening as my car will probably require extensive (read: expensive) modifications to fit a duratec engine if it is even possible.

As for the duratec itself, ~£4500+vat for basic engine but ~£6500+vat for engine and electronics...hmm, £2000 for electronics, have they never heard of Megasquirt?

[blue nose]

Originally Posted by onenastyviper

Sorry but as far as I am concerned I do not care what engine is in the back of my car, it's the driving and racing I enjoy.

Do we really go round saying that we are Kent engine formula ford drivers just to differentiate ourselves from 'other' drivers??

What about the latest environmental push by the FIA and MSA for catalytic converters? How long before they become mandated for 'all' racing series making the Kent engine a footnote in history?

As a VD87 owner, I am in two minds about this happening as my car will probably require extensive (read: expensive) modifications to fit a duratec engine if it is even possible.

As for the duratec itself, ~£4500+vat for basic engine but ~£6500+vat for engine and electronics...hmm, £2000 for electronics, have they never heard of Megasquirt?

Mr Dirk Diggler we do say that we are Formula Ford Kent drivers Diz can even remember back 41 years when it started.

But as far as putting a Duratec Mazda in the back no thanks.

[onenastyviper]

Originally Posted by blue nose

Mr Dirk Diggler we do say that we are Formula Ford Kent drivers Diz can even remember back 41 years when it started.

But as far as putting a Duratec Mazda in the back no thanks.

Yay, rotary power all the way...

[Triple J Motorsport]

Don't think a smaller flywheel is a realistic option but a lighter one is as it will "protect" the crank too

Originally Posted by Tim Draffan

I think we are looking at two seperate issues simply because pre '90 cars and some later cars would be too dificult to change or the cost will make it prohibitive or the owner is happy to continue with a Kent.
So we need a way forward to provide sensibly priced good quality parts for the Kent engine.
A better quality crank is a no brainer, but are there enough old blocks out there to keep the class going?
And re-smaller diameter flywheels, I fitted a skid plate either side of the the flywheel which prevents it "grounding" a far easier solution thah having to modify the bell housing and starter.

Secondly is there a place for a low cost Duratec class below national Formula Ford?

Well wouldn't it be better for the class if it was low cost to strart with?
Yes some of our better healed clubman would change class and some of the young guns might not be interested in FF1600 but I don't think it would be a threat to the health of FF1600 as it now.