New Safety Car Regs

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Asp

Dale Wells told us today at Croft, as regards the "waved yellows" situation, that we are not expected to read the new regulations to the letter and, as far as he's concerned, the "stationary until you have the pack" method hasn't changed. Which should save our arms!

It doesn't say in the regs how fast the 'wave' is... so once every 30 seconds should do

[Darren Holmes]

Originally Posted by Asp

Dale Wells told us today at Croft, as regards the "waved yellows" situation, that we are not expected to read the new regulations to the letter and, as far as he's concerned, the "stationary until you have the pack" method hasn't changed. Which should save our arms!

This kind of inconsistency is very frustrating for those of us who marshal at different circuits, having received training at Oulton today to wave the yellow, that is what I would plan do to at any circuit, but it seems not at croft, and how would I know that if you hadn't posted on here! If i had any hair left - I would lol

[Asp]

Note of clarification, when I say "read the regulations to the letter" that's my phrasing. Dale's interpretation is that we're not expected to wear our arms out, which I think is fair enough - I don't think I'd have any intention of doing a non-stop wave under SC conditions in any event.

It would be a very cruel clerk (Hi Bricey )to phone up a post and demand that a yellow flag is waved regardless of the presence of a train of cars...

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Stuart H

Think we should stick to the old system.

Strewth, please no. This is a major step forward.

If I had the choice to amend (maybe feedback for 2010 regs!) I'd go for:

Stationary yellow, except where additional warning required such as for marshals on track. (If you must wave for the train, I've always felt the waved yellow should be after the last car in the train is in your sector and until it reaches the next. Those in the train know they're going slowly, it's the guy about to catch it you need to warn). I still prefer the American idea of two yellows back to back which does away with the need for an additional SC board.

Yellows withdrawn when the SC switches his lights off.

Green at the start line only, and when it waves, race. Don't much care if you've reached the line, it's safe to go.

In the meantime, I'm going to rejoice in yellows in both directions and just the one set of regs.

[Stevie B]

Originally Posted by Darren Holmes

This kind of inconsistency is very frustrating for those of us who marshal at different circuits, having received training at Oulton today to wave the yellow, that is what I would plan do to at any circuit, but it seems not at croft, and how would I know that if you hadn't posted on here! If i had any hair left - I would lol

Its' all fun

[PieMan]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

Someone tell me, are you supposed to race back to the start or not when the SC board is shown?

In a word "no" - because the incident maybe between your present location and the line. The flags and boards are introduced both ways around the track to neutralise the whole lap ASAP.

[Peter Harding]

So – there are a few things that have cropped up and I have asked the questions.

Waved yellow all the time and tired arms.

Whilst for normal incidents (non SC ) it’s important to keep waving to ensure all the other flags around match, I guess there is no need to waved when there is no-one coming along to see it. That should get enough breaks to rest the arms.

[Peter Harding]

Waved Yellows – how do we warn of a second incident. The official answer is that drivers should be reminded/aware of the need for caution.

I think we will be waving fairly slowly most of the time and upgrading to a vigorous wave and a bit of gesturing will do the trick.

[Peter Harding]

Waved Green

I think it’s useful to warn cars not in the train that we are about to start.

If we get an incident during the restart (Greens going round) I have been told that Yellow takes priority and green should not be shown there and greens will have to be picked up from other direction. (yes I know – what if 2 incidents…)

Personally, I think we should get the cue to go green from the withdrawal of the SC board at an adjacent post and not from the actual waved green. That should allow propagation both ways whatever happens.

[Peter Harding]

Using the pit lane

If cars are led through the pits how do we get those not-in-touch to do likewise.
The answer I got was that an arrow board should be used (if available)at the pit entry. If not, marshals at pit entry could go to the side of the track (if safe) and use the flag/gestures to ensure cars go into pits. (I guess there should be pit marshals in the pit lane waving the cars through in case they think they were sent into pits to stop.)

[The Fat Clerk]

I'm just waiting for an 'overtaking under a waved green' report to deal with!

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk

I'm just waiting for an 'overtaking under a waved green' report to deal with!

Especially as the new Observers pad doesn't cater for it with the tick boxes!

[Nighthawk]

Yes but the standard 2009/10 MSA- Post chief report pad does....

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Nighthawk

Yes but the standard 2009/10 MSA- Post chief report pad does....

Not quite - the 'Flag Infringement' section only has a tick box for a green flag at one post.

[Nighthawk]

Well spotted....I stand corrected

[craig hope]

Why not just have a stationary green when car lights go out and then waved at start when leader passes then a waved follows all cars around untill the last car has passed...

keep yellows the same, for saftey or just display a stationary for one lap with the SC board
then go back to normal waved when in your area ....

[Woolley]

Why have a green anywhere except at the start line? Even if they don't see that one the absence of flags and everyone else going past will tell them they're racing. If you're on your own waving a green, you've got to put it down to wave a yellow, and it precludes waving a blue at a time when it might be most important. I feel it's completely superfluous.

Basically, a restart is the same thing as a rolling start except for being in single file, so why does it need different signals? We've already let the cars know they're going racing this time by when we take in the SC boards, so they just need to form up in a line and go when the green is waved.

I also fail to understand the no overtaking until the line regulation, especially where a leader is behind a much slower lapped car. The green indicates it's safe to race, so go race. Who gives a stuff whether you've reached the line yet?

[Shelagh]

I've been at circuits where they've insisted on the green flag going out at the last post before the start/finish line. However, I thought we had finally got a "more or less" safety car system that worked. BUT - who are we to argue with the "powers that be" who don't actually experience it from the bank and just seem to want to come up with something that works for them & their timing. But maybe I'm just cynical.

I'm also hoping to be the first with that "overtaking under the green" report - and I'm not and never want to be a Post Chief - but what a thing to have on your CV, eh?

[roys1]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

"overtaking under the green"

Surely the report should be..
Overtaking during a safety car period before cars passed the start/finish line..

[Shelagh]

How boring, Roy!

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

I thought we had finally got a "more or less" safety car system that worked.

We'll have to disagree on that one. I always thought it was a shambles which mostly got lucky. This is much better.

[Shelagh]

Originally Posted by Woolley

We'll have to disagree on that one. I always thought it was a shambles which mostly got lucky. This is much better.

Flag-wise I believe it did work rather well - stationary until the train was in your sector gave the cars catching up an idea that they still had a ways to go. Certainly a shambles when the safety car itself went wrong (never forget Donington when the lead had changed as they came up on the safety car - they kept waving the new leader past thinking he was a backmarker so the old leader went with him. Forget how many laps but the safety car came past time and time again on its own!!!).

I just have doubts about this working - in terms of flags - but, hey ho, let's wait and see.

[Saucy]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Flag-wise I believe it did work rather well - stationary until the train was in your sector gave the cars catching up an idea that they still had a ways to go. Certainly a shambles when the safety car itself went wrong (never forget Donington when the lead had changed as they came up on the safety car - they kept waving the new leader past thinking he was a backmarker so the old leader went with him. Forget how many laps but the safety car came past time and time again on its own!!!).

I just have doubts about this working - in terms of flags - but, hey ho, let's wait and see.

I agree with the above, it seemed so simple to have a stationary, then a waved once in your sector then back to a stationary. It was easy to understand and practice while out on the bank. If something in general works why change it. I learned the new rules at a recent training course and yet reading all these posts with peoples thoughts and reflections has now confused me as to what will actually happen.
I will wait and see on the day as I get the nudge to hold up the SC board and then told to bring it in, I will learn from seeing others.

[gachjoel]

It doesn`t take a lot to do it,
but i`m slightly confused(.com)
From what i can gather by keeping up with this thread,
you go to a full course waved yellow with s/c board,
now i was told yesterday in training that it then goes back to a stationary and waved when the s/c is in your sector.

So is it a full course waved yellow all the time whilst the safety car is on circuit.
or not
except for when the s/c is due in,then it goes full course waved,except for the startline

thanks in advance

[Justin Moran]

Until the SC boards are fixed to flag points (like DP) I wont relish trying to hold the board and wave a yellow for the duration. I know there may be some help from Incident marshals for this but it isnt always possible due to a lack of spare bods!