360MRC, next time (2011) - Discussion re Car Eligibility etc

[MagnetON]

Originally Posted by johngee

Seriously Grant, I believe that there's still reciprocity (and that easy for me to say!) between Motorsport Ireland and the MSA licences. I'll check it out for you

lol, well knowing how things work in Ireland, it would probably be easier to get a license off of MI.... just tick the boxes and all that! lol

[john ruston]

Spa 6 hrs GT 40.
2009 Won race!

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by andy97

Why do we have to have a minimum of 5000 anyway - why do we want to exclude people with Lotii, Morgans, Scimiters, Ginettas, Rochdales, Gilberns, TVR, Darrians etc etc?

Lets get a full grid. If you have a production car, designed originally for use on the road - from a recognised manufacturer then you could enter (subject to the appropriate age restriction, whatever that becomes). Min production figure - 5!

One thing for certain is that we will not have sportscars, it is for Saloons and GT's. When we opened the books for sportscars we actually lost TWO entrants. we gained......another saloon(the one that won)

A Scimiter GTE and Coupe could enter. The fine line that you come up against is that you need to (as Mike Bell said earlier) make the race relevant for the clubman to compete in. No one would enter a race if they didnt think they had a chance of getting a result, be that the podium for overall or best in class...or merely finishing. But one thing that is true, which was mentioned on Sunday and today to me in an e mail...is...on Sunday....did anyone really care if a car was "within spec"? People have said the Jag should not have won as it was in invitation.....but there is nothing in our regs that say that an invitation class could not win.....(maybe we forgot to write it) but again..who cares.

That race was magical, there is no better way to put it and what we want to do at 360 is recreate it next year....with a few more cars.

We are looking at various options and hope to issue a statement this friday.

360 Motor Racing Club...........Even with just eight cars....Endurance Racing how it should be!

[Peter Mallett]

I stand to be corrected but the Jag didn't go much faster than my overall best lap from a previous race. It was consistent, which was the aim and demostrates why modified cars and standard cars can compete together in a 6 hour race. Its wheels were non standard but its tyres were 1B. And remember the only car to complete the event trouble free was the Pug!

Had I the time and the money, I'd look at a modified small capacity car 1360 Metro anybody? You can restrict the revs to 7k (a full race one will IIRC go to 8.5k) and still get a lap of around 1:27/28 on 1B tyres.

[Mike Bell]

The Jag was driven consistently very well and had one big advantage over some others- a 110 litre fuel tank in the boot floor which could take a churn of fuel much quicker than a standard hatchback type filler. Of course it would have been 'victory for the little guy' if the Pug had won, and having a lot of happy memories rallying them (plus the odd scar!) it would suited me! However, lap times between it, Jag, Corolla and RS2000 were not that different.

Just concentrate on consistency and reliability..........

[andy97]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

One thing for certain is that we will not have sportscars, it is for Saloons and GT's. When we opened the books for sportscars we actually lost TWO entrants. we gained......another saloon(the one that won)

A Scimiter GTE and Coupe could enter. The fine line that you come up against is that you need to (as Mike Bell said earlier) make the race relevant for the clubman to compete in. No one would enter a race if they didnt think they had a chance of getting a result, be that the podium for overall or best in class...or merely finishing. But one thing that is true, which was mentioned on Sunday and today to me in an e mail...is...on Sunday....did anyone really care if a car was "within spec"? People have said the Jag should not have won as it was in invitation.....but there is nothing in our regs that say that an invitation class could not win.....(maybe we forgot to write it) but again..who cares.

That race was magical, there is no better way to put it and what we want to do at 360 is recreate it next year....with a few more cars.

We are looking at various options and hope to issue a statement this friday.

360 Motor Racing Club...........Even with just eight cars....Endurance Racing how it should be!

I still don't understand the anti -(road) sportscar view. We should just concentrate on the "clubman" and "endurance challenge" aspects & let rules about age, standard size & shape body shells & no non standard aerofoils etc (& maybe list 1 A tyres) be the limiting factor.

Lets look at what the most popular club level race series are in the UK at the moment (off the top off my head: MX5s (75 of them raced at Silverstone last w/e in 3 grids); MR2's; Production BMWs, Minis, CSCC Swinging Sixties & Future Classics etc etc etc - mostly series that even in the current climate get overscribed grids) and frame the regs around those sorts of cars.

[terence]

I have to ask where the above mentioned got to for the 15th Aug.

[andy97]

It's a fair question, Terry, but the MX5s, Mk2 MR2s & most of the FCs were not eligible due to being post 1986. Several Swinging Sixties & FC cars were not allowed because the were over 3.5 litres or turbos.

[John Turner]

So, closed cars only then, but that includes saloons, coupes and GTs. Now, if we set aside production numbers for the moment, that would include Gilbern 1800/3000Gts, Scimmie Coupes and GTEs, Rochdale Olympics, MGB & C GTs and what about the Sabre Six GT? Perhaps we could persuade Mr Drabble to get one, since like me he is an afficionado - fitted with an old Ford saloon straight six engine remember. It might be worth actually list the cars eligible, rather than defining it.

[Peter Mallett]

I started that in my head this morning. It would be a looooong list.

[midgetman]

What attracted me was the potential for an eclectic mix of cars - true Clubman spirit. Make it just a feeder for the Spa 6 hours and that goes away. There's been no questions about elgibility here, not like the *****ing that goes on in these very pages regarding anything with the words "Appendix K" alongside it.

So the Jag that won was a rorty hot rod. So what? It didn't win by much. And we beat a full Appx K car in David's shopping car. Just shows what SIX HOUR racing is really about.

As for dates, we really do need to keep the early 80s cars. Just because they are still "modern" in the minds of us old f*rts, they are old to the youngsters coming into racing today. And if we're to make this "germ of an idea" last, it needs to attract people outside our current circle.

Whilst I enjoy 1a tyres, let's be realistic - if there are series running 1bs, that may put a barrier in the way of potential entrants if they have to buy wheels/tyres just for the one race. Altho 1a is a great leveller...perhaps fire off some surveys during the closed season to see what the clubs actually want? Get some flyers under windscreens at race meetings.

Finally in this diatribe.

With the greatest of respect to those requesting otherwise, the whole idea of the 360MRC is to give those of us who don't do Spa etc somewhere to play. Please leave OUR game alone! If the event is attractive to you, I know where there's a CLASS WINNING MG Montego for sale, and for probably less than your catering bill for a Masters round

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by midgetman

What attracted me was the potential for an eclectic mix of cars - true Clubman spirit. Make it just a feeder for the Spa 6 hours and that goes away. There's been no questions about elgibility here, not like the *****ing that goes on in these very pages regarding anything with the words "Appendix K" alongside it.

So the Jag that won was a rorty hot rod. So what? It didn't win by much. And we beat a full Appx K car in David's shopping car. Just shows what SIX HOUR racing is really about.

As for dates, we really do need to keep the early 80s cars. Just because they are still "modern" in the minds of us old f*rts, they are old to the youngsters coming into racing today. And if we're to make this "germ of an idea" last, it needs to attract people outside our current circle.

Whilst I enjoy 1a tyres, let's be realistic - if there are series running 1bs, that may put a barrier in the way of potential entrants if they have to buy wheels/tyres just for the one race. Altho 1a is a great leveller...perhaps fire off some surveys during the closed season to see what the clubs actually want? Get some flyers under windscreens at race meetings.

Finally in this diatribe.

With the greatest of respect to those requesting otherwise, the whole idea of the 360MRC is to give those of us who don't do Spa etc somewhere to play. Please leave OUR game alone! If the event is attractive to you, I know where there's a CLASS WINNING MG Montego for sale, and for probably less than your catering bill for a Masters round

D'ya know...I love every part of that post, especially the bit about the "CLASS WINNING MG Montego"

it has truely made me smile

The thing about the tyres is a valid point, but, as was also moted to me, by one of the competitors actually is that "for a six hour race, you are gonna end up buying a set of tyres anyway....so i dont care what you make me run it in"...

All food for thought and please do keep it coming.

C

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Whilst I enjoy 1a tyres, let's be realistic - if there are series running 1bs, that may put a barrier in the way of potential entrants if they have to buy wheels/tyres just for the one race. Altho 1a is a great leveller...perhaps fire off some surveys during the closed season to see what the clubs actually want? Get some flyers under windscreens at race meetings.

Why not permit both tyres and allow the entrant to choose? You could also argue that cars are already built to certain series/championship regs, therefore why bother having anything bespoke for the 6hrs, other than MSA and circuit regs?

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Why not permit both tyres and allow the entrant to choose? You could also argue that cars are already built to certain series/championship regs, therefore why bother having anything bespoke for the 6hrs, other than MSA and circuit regs?

If you saw my Scimitar you wouldn't say that

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I started that in my head this morning. It would be a looooong list.

Better start now, then!

Seriously, given the grid size last Sunday, the organisers could be forgiven for looking at post 1986 cars. However, the more I think about it the more I think that 1986 is a good cut off point provided you guys not only commit, but spread the word beyond the 10-Tenths net. The idea was born here but this is, as I have said before, a 'back to the roots' club endurance race, so it goes well beyond solely the 10-Tenths catchment area. 8 cars turned out to be surprisingly successful, particularly as the grid was so eclectic. But now multiply that variety by 5 - what a grid that would make, and Snetterton can take it, so it's doable.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by midgetman

What attracted me was the potential for an eclectic mix of cars - true Clubman spirit. Make it just a feeder for the Spa 6 hours and that goes away. There's been no questions about elgibility here, not like the *****ing that goes on in these very pages regarding anything with the words "Appendix K" alongside it.

So the Jag that won was a rorty hot rod. So what? It didn't win by much. And we beat a full Appx K car in David's shopping car. Just shows what SIX HOUR racing is really about.

As for dates, we really do need to keep the early 80s cars. Just because they are still "modern" in the minds of us old f*rts, they are old to the youngsters coming into racing today. And if we're to make this "germ of an idea" last, it needs to attract people outside our current circle.

Whilst I enjoy 1a tyres, let's be realistic - if there are series running 1bs, that may put a barrier in the way of potential entrants if they have to buy wheels/tyres just for the one race. Altho 1a is a great leveller...perhaps fire off some surveys during the closed season to see what the clubs actually want? Get some flyers under windscreens at race meetings.

Finally in this diatribe.

With the greatest of respect to those requesting otherwise, the whole idea of the 360MRC is to give those of us who don't do Spa etc somewhere to play. Please leave OUR game alone! If the event is attractive to you, I know where there's a CLASS WINNING MG Montego for sale, and for probably less than your catering bill for a Masters round

Great post Max!

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

That race was magical, there is no better way to put it and what we want to do at 360 is recreate it next year....with a few more cars.


360 Motor Racing Club...........Even with just eight cars....Endurance Racing how it should be!

I don't think you'll ever recreate the atmosphere of that race, it was something special created by all the people there that turned what could have been a disaster into the fantastic day it was.
You may get just as good a day (in a different way) with a full grid but I doubt it'll ever have that same feel to it again.

[John Turner]

I think that you are right, Tim. Next time, it has to be 'special' in a different way!

[johngee]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

I don't think you'll ever recreate the atmosphere of that race, it was something special created by all the people there that turned what could have been a disaster into the fantastic day it was.
You may get just as good a day (in a different way) with a full grid but I doubt it'll ever have that same feel to it again.

The same thought has crossed my mind. Maybe it was a 'Dunkirk' spirit, maybe it was us against the world - who knows - the weather helped of course but it was much, much more than that.
Whatever it was, we need the same people, same attitudes, the same teams (plus a lot more), bottle it and uncork it again next year

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by SAMD

If you saw my Scimitar you wouldn't say that

No probs. Scrap heap challenge.

Cars I can think of right now:

Alfa Romeo - Sud Sprint, GTV
Austin - Mini Clubman GT
BMW - 2002/535/325/635, M3
Fiat ???
Ford - Escort Mk1/2/3, Capri Mk 1/2/3, Sierra Cosworth/XR4/XR4x4, Fiesta XR2
Hillman - Avenger GT (or even Tiger)
Jaguar - XJS (yes I know its more than 3.5l)/XJ12
Lancia - Beta Motecarlo, Fulvia
Morris - Mini Clubman GT
MG - BGT/BGTV8/CGT, Metro
Nissan 240Z
NSU - TT
Opel - Commodore/Manta
Peugeot - 205
Reliant - Scimitar
Rover - P6/SD1 3500/Vitesse, Tomcat, 216
Triumph - TR7/TR8 (Coupe)
Vauxhall - Viva, Firenza
Volkswagon - Golf GTi Mk1/2/3, Vento

Just a few to be getting on with.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Tim Falce

I don't think you'll ever recreate the atmosphere of that race, it was something special created by all the people there that turned what could have been a disaster into the fantastic day it was.
You may get just as good a day (in a different way) with a full grid but I doubt it'll ever have that same feel to it again.

Spot on and something I think we all now realise.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Spot on and something I think we all now realise.

Yes its true, I said this to John and Terry....we really have now got to live up to what we did last sunday and I know that just sounds soooo weird for anyone who wasnt there and is looking in thinking with a puzzled look "but.....there was only.....eight cars!!" but its true, Tim has hit the nail on the head...but we will try to make every year special, which is why its important to get the balance of the field right along with the surrounding off track activities etc

So..I spose I will have to get onto RAF Lakenheath again!

[midgetman]

Peter, Cossie's a Turbo...

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, I know that too.

[graeme]

Would widening the entry criteria help (or hinder)? The Caterhams in my series are effectively 1970s cars (live-axle, 8v-engines) but built in the 90s, which currently excludes them. With only 100bhp and 1A tyres, they lap Snett in 1:28-ish. You don't want Radicals or their ilk in this sort of race but perhaps allowing cars "which compliment the grid" might boost entries??