European F3 Open 2012

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by META4

2011: Fontana - Fumanelli - Gamberini
2010: Barba - McLeod - Fumanelli
2009: Mendez - Miguez - Bizzari

Fontana did one GP3 meeting last year. Not having driven a GP3 car before free practice, he got a P10 and a P6 - the only time the car was in the points all year. 2012 programme not yet announced.

Fumanelli is doing GP3 and has been getting excellent test results.

Gamberini impressed greatly after a middling season in FRUK the year before. 2012 programme not announced yet.

Barba is a established podium finisher in FR3.5.

Macleod did half a season of GP3 in 2011 with no testing, ending up fourth at Monza.

Miguez and Bizarri both now active in decent level GTs.

Hardly a disaster is it?

In actual fact the series has a great record of producing drivers that go on to sucessful / professional careers.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by META4

In which way does this Euro Open F3 offers a very good package???

2012 Formula 3 schedules:

Euro F3 Open: Algarve, Nürburgring, Spa-Francorchamps, Brands Hatch, Paul Ricard, Hungaroring, Monza, Montmeló / no irrelevent circuit

F3 Euroseries: Zeltweg, Zandvoort, Cheste, Hockenheim, Nürburgring, Norisring, Oschersleben, Lausitzring / 3 irrelevent circuits

British F3: Monza, Paul Ricard, Spa-Francorchamps, Pau, Silverstone, Donington, Brands Hatch, Snetterton, Oulton Park, Rockingham / 3 irrelevent circuits

German F3: Assen, Spa-Francorchamps, Zandvoort, Zeltweg, Hockenheim, Nürburgring, Oschersleben, Lausitz, Sachsenring / 4 irrelevent circuits

The Euro F3 Open doesn't have any street circuit, but it comprises only international circuits. The other championships have many national circuits.

[META4]

Sorry for my ignorance , but what is an irrelevant Circuit for you?

[flatbroke]

Originally Posted by META4

Sorry for my ignorance , but what is an irrelevant Circuit for you?

assen
Oschersleben, Lausitz, Sachsenring
Zandvoort, Zeltweg

I do not see any F1 races or teams testing at these circuits and you would thought anyone doing F3 would be looking to get in to F1 !!

[META4]

Originally Posted by flatbroke

assen
Oschersleben, Lausitz, Sachsenring
Zandvoort, Zeltweg

I do not see any F1 races or teams testing at these circuits and you would thought anyone doing F3 would be looking to get in to F1 !!

ok then if i follow you logic, how many of the Euro Open F3 Drivers have made their way to F1 ?

And what about Macau then is it an irrelevant track?

Do u honestly think that racing at Hungaroring or Brands is really a must to get to f1?

[JohnMiller]

European F3 Open has existed 3 years. How many F3 drivers since 2009 have made it to F1 so far (Red Bull excepted)?

You don't need to do those tracks to get to F1. But track knowledge is the second or third question asked by GP3 and GP2 teams.

[META4]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

European F3 Open has existed 3 years. How many F3 drivers since 2009 have made it to F1 so far (Red Bull excepted)?

You don't need to do those tracks to get to F1. But track knowledge is the second or third question asked by GP3 and GP2 teams.

Bianchi,Bottas,Gutirrez,Colleti,Bird,Cecotto...


I leave aside the ones who are now DTM like Mehri,Wittmann,Vietoris,Mortara or at least earning money from their drive like Van Dam and Caldarelli (Japan SuperGT),Vernay (Indy) or Vanthoor and Sims in GT...

How many drivers from Euro Open F3 can you mention?

[JohnMiller]

I can't be bothered to feed the troll any more.

I never even realised Coletti, Cecotto, Bird, Gutierrez, Bianchi and Bottas were F1 race drivers.

Nor did I realise they came from your favoured ATS F3.

Please accept my humblest apologies.*

I wrote the word **** before and unfortunately Bella had to delete it.

Short word. Starts with "c." Rhymes with "rock."













*sarcasm

[META4]

I am just a motorsport fan and have no favorite racing serie and try to keep it real.

I have no problem with Europ Open F3, but when some peoples believe Euro Open f3 is one of the best junior formula , i believe they are wrong.

[JohnMiller]

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I believe all of the proper European F3 series have a lot of merit, certainly including the German F3 (where I have resisted pointing out that that back of the grid is routinely as much as 10s off the pace).

It is down to each driver to make the most of what they can afford, where they feel comfortable and what they want to achieve.

Any of the main F3 series can propel a driver forward if he is good enough, and all of the main F3 series have drivers racing who probably aren't good enough to progress - although they are perfectly entitled to race and people can work and improve you know!

[FFfan]

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I believe all of the proper European F3 series have a lot of merit, certainly including the German F3 (where I have resisted pointing out that that back of the grid is routinely as much as 10s off the pace).

It is down to each driver to make the most of what they can afford, where they feel comfortable and what they want to achieve.

Any of the main F3 series can propel a driver forward if he is good enough, and all of the main F3 series have drivers racing who probably aren't good enough to progress - although they are perfectly entitled to race and people can work and improve you know!

Unfortunately motor racing at this level is far more about money than talent. Nobody knows that better than we do.

There is nothing wrong with Euro Open F3. My son who is a proven winner would love to be able to raise a budget to compete in it!!

Dominic Malvern (father of Scott)

[chunterer]

Ok folks whilst we're on the subject of 'keeping it real', let's keep it sensible and pleasant from now on please!

cheers,
chunty

[META4]

Originally Posted by FFfan

There is nothing wrong with Euro Open F3. My son who is a proven winner would love to be able to raise a budget to compete in it!!

Dominic Malvern (father of Scott)

Ok then what is the budget like to run in a Top Class car?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by META4

Sorry for my ignorance , but what is an irrelevant Circuit for you?

In this context, it's a circuit not used in major international championships, or...

Originally Posted by META4

And what about Macau then is it an irrelevant track?

Street circuits are extremely relevant for F1 hopefuls.

Originally Posted by META4

Do u honestly think that racing at Hungaroring or Brands is really a must to get to f1?

F3 drivers are also required in WTCC, Le Mans and FIA GT.

[META4]

You are very funny NaBUru38 , you rate Portimao and Brands Hatch as "relevant" tracks for Euro Open F3 and you rate "irrelevant" Zeltweg,Lausitz and Oschersleben where F3 Euroseries and DTM are racing.... it does not make sense at all . Isn't DTM a Major International Championship?

Sachsenring was used last year by World GT1 championship and Assen by Superleague as well

BTW can you give the name of the drivers who raced in Euro Open F3 and who are active in either F1,DTM,WTCC, LeMans or FIA GT?

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by META4

BTW can you give the name of the drivers who raced in Euro Open F3 and who are active in either F1,DTM,WTCC, LeMans or FIA GT?

Maybe he can be bothered but I can't.

As I wrote before European F3 Open has existed three seasons.

If you want to include the previous Spanish F3, why don't you do some research and you will actually be amazed by the sheer number of drivers who went on to those levels. I was when I did that in 2006/7.

Even Vettel and Rosberg both drove in some races. I am sure you have a reason why that doesn't count though.

[META4]

I already prooved you that other F3 championships have provided much more "paid drivers" in the last 3 years that Euro Open F3.


I guess if Rosberg and Vettel did not do a full campaign in Spanish F3 and prefered to race F3 Euroseries instead it is because they were probable not brave enough...

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by META4

I already prooved you that other F3 championships have provided much more "paid drivers" in the last 3 years that Euro Open F3.

No you haven't, the only thing you have "prooved" is that you haven't checked any facts. When you have finished your homework why not do some research?

I can't be arsed to list them, there are loads. GTs, DTM, LMPs, WTCC.

[META4]

I will list them for you then: ( i will list only the champions as they did full season) not one shot like Vettel (who was invited by Mr Alfonso D'Orleans) or Rosberg who raced Winter Serie (And NOT Main serie)

2011 Alex Fontana (Does not appear anywhere so far)
2010 Marco Barba Lopez (finished 15Th in Auto GP)
2009 Bruno Méndez (Finished 13Th in Auto GP)

2008 Germán Sánchez (disappeared)
2007 Máximo Cortés (disappeared)
2006 Ricardo Risatti III (Argentinian Touring Car)
2005 Andy Soucek (... He probably does not know himself where he is...)
2004 Borja GarcÃ*a (disappeared)
2003 Ricardo MaurÃ*cio (Brazilian Touring Car Maybe)
2002 Marcel Costa (disappeared)
2001 Ander Vilarino (race local Rallies in Spain and Euro Nascar)


Even the spaniard Alguersuari prefered to focus on a Full British F3 campaign

Should i show you the list of the F3 Euroseries or British F3 champions to compare????

[JohnMiller]

Originally Posted by META4

Should i show you the list of the F3 Euroseries or British F3 champions to compare????

If you want. You switch arguments left, right, centre.

Plenty of errors in your list anyway. Is Maxi Cortes disappeared related to Maxi Cortes pro LMP1 driver?

Goodbye c/rock...

[peebee2]

Makes you wonder why the Open grid will be bigger than the British and Euroseries grids combined this year. And with the most new cars as well of any F3 series worldwide.

[META4]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Makes you wonder why the Open grid will be bigger than the British and Euroseries grids combined this year. And with the most new cars as well of any F3 series worldwide.

Makes you wonder why??? because there are a lot of "average" drivers who want to be a champion and they know that with the same budget they pay to race in Euro Open F3 they could join Eurocup formula Renault 2.0 championship but they have no chance to reach the top 20.

Put a little bit of "Good PR" on the top of that then you can convince some naive peoples that Euro Open F3 is the best F3 championship in the world....

[Alex K]

There is signifant difference between driving and competing in FR2.0 and Formula 3 - engineering, testing time, setting up wise. Europ F3 is good value for money and will teach you much more than F2/FR2.0.
That's real difference.

[JohnMiller]

I wouldn't waste your time feeding the troll m8!

[bella]

the thing is with this is that everyone has a point.

yes, on the face of it META4 is totally right. the champions have on the whole, disappeared. there's been some distinctly dodgy onward moves by drivers who frankly, should know (and could afford) better. i don't think cowardice comes into it - there's no point in running to a series where it's easier to win a title if it's totally rubbish. most, if not all f3 series are well regarded, simply because like alex k says, they're f3.

but then, nothing johnmiller says is wrong either. if you only have a certain amount to spend you'd struggle to do much better than f3 open with it, particularly this year with this calendar. it's value for money from a driver point of view.

but that's what career progression is, isn't it? balancing what you can and can't afford with the best value that money will give you from a reputable series and quality car point of view. witness the recent popularity of the formula renault eurocup versus the uk championship. or the shift towards formula renault 3.5 from gp2. there's so many factors you can't just go "the drivers haven't gone anywhere, so the series is rubbish".

but much like everything it depends what your goal is as a driver, doesn't it? if a drivers goal is f1, then they're going to want to tread a very expensive path. if their goal is to prepare themselves and win stuff on the way to being paid to race cars it's much more up in the air, isn't it?