F1 Privateers

[Tony F.P.]

Originally posted by paulzinho
I'd love to see the days of pre qualifying return, there used to be some interesting combinations back then!

Concorde agreement wouldnt let it happen though. Shame because privateers are an integral part of any sort of racing.

I know a Guy in Northern Canada who made 4.3 Billion U.S. dollars on a mining stock who would love to have some fun with His profits..excellent Tax write off.
Watch for more news on this topic soon.

Full Story in the Voisey Bay News.
the buyer was Inco-T

[Red]

Originally posted by racingdad
That is 48 million on top of the budget to design & build a car, get all of the required equip,ment and facilities and staff - up front. It is a dis-incentive. It means thta a new team has to find more money than an exisitng one in their first year, just when the're unproven and without the results to get decent sponsorship in the first place! I agree that having the likes of Andrea Moda trundling around doesn't look good and that there has to be an entry fee, but even in National racing the cost of the entry fee can often break the budget.

I repeat, this is not a fee. Of course, you need a budget to build the facilities, etc. That's from starting a team from nothing. On top of that, you also need a budget to run it for 1 year. That's those 48 million, which you deposit at FIA and they'll give it back to you, during the year (with interest too, if you're curious). This is a good rule. It ensures that 1 team does NOT go bankrupt in first year. Whatever happens, they have 1 year to try to fix something.

Bert, obviously you missed my point. Minardi HAS it's place in F1, is one of the oldest teams around actually. That's why they get some sponsorship, while you will not. They are different to Bert racing because they already exist, they have a factory, they have some staff and they have on idea of how to build a car.

Teretonga, what are you talking about? How many privateers did you have in 1997? Actually I vaguelly remember some BIG teams with glorious names that closed gates.

[jamescrofts]

Why did Bernie go out of his way to stop the Phoenix team last year? Last year's Arrows proved quite quick. So lets get these cars racing!

[Red]

Are you serious? You really think that Phoenix was an enthusiast privateer and Bernie didn't allow him to play? Comeon, let's try to be realistic.

[jamescrofts]

Originally posted by Red
Are you serious? You really think that Phoenix was an enthusiast privateer and Bernie didn't allow him to play? Comeon, let's try to be realistic.

They were hoping to use Prost chassis and Arrows (Hart) enginges. What I say is the more the better. Sometimes the slow teams offer great entertainment. Lets get the second hand cars back in F1 and make the engine makers supply them.

[Red]

They were hoping to buy (cheaply) the money that Prost (edited; mistype) were entitled to receive, according to Concorde Agreement. Also they were hoping to buy (cheaply) a spot on the grid, in the hope to re-sell it later. They were NOT having any intention to race.

[jamescrofts]

Originally posted by Red
They were hoping to buy (cheaply) the money that Arrows were entitled to receive, according to Concorde Agreement. Also they were hoping to buy (cheaply) a spot on the grid, in the hope to re-sell it later. They were NOT having any intention to race.

Another good reason to scrap the Concorde Agreement and let in the privateers!

James

[Red]

Which one?

[jamescrofts]

Up until the early 80's there were plenty of Grand Prix privateers. Should second hand or replicar cars be allowed back in. Transit vans and trailers as well?

Also so should we scrap the "Closed Shop", the Conncorde agreement which makes F1 out of reach and very boring?

[jamescrofts]

Red, are you one of the 4 that has voted "No"?

[Red]

Originally posted by jamescrofts
Red, are you one of the 4 that has voted "No"?

Wow, you guessed?

Ahh, yeah, "up until the early 80". The first Concorde Agreement came later.

PS: If Formula 1 is boring to you just don't watch it, but anyway, how a 2 years old Ferrari or McLaren would spice up the things is something that escapes me.

[jamescrofts]

Privateers like Hesketh and Wolf and Williams spiced things up. The Concorde agreement also banned one car and three car teams. Formula One needs to be deregulated.

James

[darcym]

Is there many CART/IRL/NASCAR teams that are privateers.

I am wondering if it is just F1 raising the financial bar or is CART and co locking out the grids too ?

[Red]

Privateers like Ferrari, Lotus, Cooper or McLaren spiced things up too. But that was then. Sorry, but "then" a Formula 1 car only meant a regular road car, but open-wheeled and with a bigger engine. (and no headlights). We are talking about now.

Besides, why do you need to call it Formula 1 anyway? There are other formulae which meet all your criteria. Why don't you watch/compete in them?

[Dani Filth]

i can't give a simple answer yes or no .. i want privateers .. but want them near the top .. not only filling the numbers ..

[Red]

Precisely my point. Noone blocks their entry.

[Hazza]

CART was paying teams to be on the grid this year, and technically they're ALL privateers cos there are no works rides...

anyway, i think that more rides would be good, i mean even back to the 1994 days with 26(?) car grids, it was great, going even further back 89! well that was amazing.

And i allwas like thoose little trivial things, but thoose, pre-qualifying pictures at dawn time such beutifull...

[Red]

Yes, a bigger grid is nice, but the Concorde Agreement limits the grid to 24 cars, not 20 like now. There must be another reason..

[Kojima_KE007]

I think if we are to allow private Formula One teams, we have to come up with a scheme or a ladder system for potential private team owners like the one we have for drivers (i.e. have to have previous experience of running a F3000 or CART team for expample).

Doing it that way, we could avoid another Andrea Moda type of thing...

[jamescrofts]

Originally posted by Kojima_KE007
I think if we are to allow private Formula One teams, we have to come up with a scheme or a ladder system for potential private team owners like the one we have for drivers (i.e. have to have previous experience of running a F3000 or CART team for expample).

Doing it that way, we could avoid another Andrea Moda type of thing...

As long as they can pre-qualify, then it does not really matter.

James

[Kojima_KE007]

Originally posted by jamescrofts
As long as they can pre-qualify, then it does not really matter.

James

Even if we get Pheonix sort of things?

[jamescrofts]

I think all competitors should be given a fair chance. As for the likes of Andrea Moda and Life; they are part of Formula One history. F1 will become very boring without them. Motor Sport magazine is full of stories about teams like these.

[RWD]

Priviteers should be allowed back, its better to have full grids, then empty grids we see at the moment.

[The Lounge King]

I think new (to F1) teams should be given a shot. Provided of course that they can make the 107%. You'd need to enforce the 107% in qualifing though. In the current format you would run the risk of excluding top drivers who park it in the kitty litter.

No point just having teams just making up the numbers though, in my opinion. F1 is supposed to be hard, both for drivers and teams.

[jamescrofts]

The building of a team's own cars has always been an obstable to new teams entering F1. New teams should be given the choice to buy 2nd hand or build their own. When a team runs just 2 cars, surely to sell another 2 or 3 cars would help bring the cost down.