Rosberg another Massa?

[LampCord]

Originally Posted by knowlesy

Rubens said that yes. But I doubt he would have actually crashed into Michael, merely make it very difficult.

Agreed. But I guess I thought that's what Nico was doing, making it very difficult. I guess its a fine line. I just thought JPM was being very pushy even by his own standards which is saying a lot!

[Dutton]

In the end, when push comes to shove, at the end of the day, when all is said and done, it was a racing incident.

[Korr]

Montoya needs to quit taking driving lessons from Sato and IDE

[rocketracer]

the lead up went like this from the way i saw it:

montoya was all over the back of nico, had slipstream, pulled out, was alongside, almost even, then coming into the braking zone, JPM braked earlier because he was off the racing line on the dirty side of the track, so nico appeared to be in front when they got the corner itself. both drivers couldnt make the corner because they wouldnt fit, so they crashed. I favour JPM in this incident, because purely from a spectator point of view, i'm glad that he put his self on the line to overtake on track. He was clearly faster, he had to try the move. Nico could still have raced hard and avoided the incident if he left enough room for montoya. It was nico's turn in which caused the accident, he hit the side of montoya rather than just took off his nose cone, so therefore you'd say that montoya had a right to be positioned where he was on the track, and would have been a bit wimpy to pull out of the maneouvre... Still, can't blame nico for driving hard, but i think his actions were nieve and ruled out any other outcome other than a crash.

fault? neither can be solely accountable for the incident, both had the opportunity to yield the corner. there probably wasnt space for 2 cars there.
outcome: both crashed and didnt win any points
conclusion: avoid accidents if you want to score points

[Kirk]

Valid conclusion Rocketracer. I watched the race again last night. Those 1st two laps were typical JPM. His "Get out of my way, I'm coming through" racing style has grown old. Michael was forced off the track to avoid him because he knew JPM will not yield regardless. He's fast yes ...... but that's not enough to be successful in F1. What's between your ears is as important, and quite often more important. Nico, even though he did nothing wrong imo and a rookie is willing to put it all in perspective ... while all we hear from JPM is the usual stale comment, "it wasn't my fault", again!

[LampCord]

I thought about this more last night and here's what bothers me most about JPM's driving that day:

If this crash had been the first time the two had locked horns that race, I could understand such an aggressive move on JPM's part expecting Nico to give him room. But JPM had just spent the last lap trying to push his way past Nico only to have the door closed on him time and again.

In this situation, a more mature driver (FA, MS, KR, RB, ok, just about everyone else that is as quick as JPM...) would have understood that there is no way he's getting past him there.

He needed to wait till he had a clean pass. Its that simple.

50-50 at best for JPM in my mind.

[ralf fan]

Originally Posted by Dan Fielden

I feel a bit silly now at the half way point of the season. After Bahrain i rung one of my mates and i said Nico Rosberg is an amazing driver, a future world champion for sure. And now im looking a bit silly. Don't get me wrong he is having a solid season and is quicker than most but he isn't exactly setting the world alight. I thort the same thing about Webber, Montoya, Alonso ( ) and Button but they have all sadly not done so (bar one )

Well Nico's first race was so good that it was going to be nowhere but downhill from there. Lets not forget he is still in his rookie year and is racing on tracks he's never been to before. He will be a star next year IMO as he gains more experienece.
As regaurds to the incident i think it was more a racing incident. Nico should have let Monty through but then that comes with experience.
Comparisons to Massa are premature.... Felipe is currently in his 3rd season in f1 and continues to produce amatuerish spins and bins although the frequency of these incidents is decreasing. I dont think Nico has yet made such a mistake.

[Kirk]

Yes, Nico has handled this quite well and sounds more like the veteran ... but as I said earlier, he can't let himself be bullied. I can't understand all those that say Nico should have yielded. No way.

It's a tad early to say he has the raw speed of a Massa, but he seems mature beyond his years and until he was run over by JPM, was quite impressive on another unfamiliar track.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Kirk

Yes, Nico has handled this quite well and sounds more like the veteran ... but as I said earlier, he can't let himself be bullied. I can't understand all those that say Nico should have yielded. No way.

It's a tad early to say he has the raw speed of a Massa, but he seems mature beyond his years and until he was run over by JPM, was quite impressive on another unfamiliar track.

It's fair to say he shouldn't yield, but I actually thought he was baulking JPM? Rock and hard place i'm afraid.

Nico's got to cement his growing reputation and JPM is always going to stick a move on you when he's fired up, regardless of the outcome.

[mac]

I'm not Montoya's greatest fan.

But his moves on both Michael and Nico were completely legitimate. The difference was that Michael is an experienced customer that eventually realised he was beaten to the corner and relinquished - he went on to record a fine second place finish.

The inexperienced Rosberg did not have the same maturity and made a clumsy defensive move where he half closed the door and half went around the outside - he finished his race on lap 2 in the wall.

[Gt_R]

I'm not so quick to lay the fault on Nico.

Sure, he is in a slower car against a quicker Mclaren, and perhaps, he could avoid contact by backing up and forced to let JPM through or take to the grass. But he didn't, and he may have sacrificed his race position this time around, maybe it'd also force Montoya to rethink the next time he tries another move on Nico.

The first two laps Montoya clearly has his pants on fire. And there was little doubt that JPM would probably get himself tied up with another car at some point. It's typical JPM's overtaking, where he simply force his car into a gap, and rely on the other driver to give in or risk hitting each other. It may be a beauty when it works, but Nico has the right to the piece of track as much as Montoya, hence to expect Nico give way is ridiculous.

Personally, i think Nico did well to hold his own against the much faster and charging Mclaren. Too bad it did not last much longer.

Anyway, given JPM's pace, there's no urgency in getting pass at such a tight and risky spot, when he could easily have 3 more clearer attempts within that very same lap. A slightly longer term planning may have helped JPM get some deserved points in a very quick car.

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by Gt_R

Anyway, given JPM's pace, there's no urgency in getting pass at such a tight and risky spot, when he could easily have 3 more clearer attempts within that very same lap. A slightly longer term planning may have helped JPM get some deserved points in a very quick car.

you could say the same sentence from the other point of view and come to the same conclusion:

"given JPM's pace, there's no urgency in rosberg blocking and prolonging the issue when JPM was likely to get past somewhere on the same lap / forthcoming laps. A slightly longer term planning may have helped rosberg get some deserved points in a reasonably quick car."

true, JPM could have waited for another opportunity, but by the same account, rosberg was clearly much slower, or JPM wouldnt have been able to pull alongside him at that part of the track. Although maybe JPM could have learned his lesson from the bus stop passing maneouvres at SPA on MS and trulli (iirc) a few years back...

both drivers had the opportunity to avoid the situation, neither driver scored points, so neither driver worked the situation to achieve a positive outcome for themselves. It appears the decision as to who was to blame for the incident comes down to who we favour between rosberg and JPM....

[Peter Ford]

nico is a better driver than massa will be,massa is still making big errors in the ferrari.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by rocketracer

Although maybe JPM could have learned his lesson from the bus stop passing maneouvres at SPA on MS and trulli (iirc) a few years back...

Same situation as last weekend. First one worked (again against Michael), second one didn't.

[Kempi]

The moves against Michael in both cases worked because Michael was still in (this year) theoretical hunt for a championship. If Michael was just there to race and not look at his points he would do the same thing as Nico.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Kempi

The moves against Michael in both cases worked because Michael was still in (this year) theoretical hunt for a championship. If Michael was just there to race and not look at his points he would do the same thing as Nico.

You may have a point, but i believe that Michael knew that he was going to lose out, (i.e used his brain), Nico and Trulli didn't.

Going back to your "hunt for a championship". In 2003, at Nurburgring, Michael was in the hunt, Juan Pablo seemingly wasn't, Juan Pablo took Michael on the outside of Dunlop, this was the race where Juan Pablo kick started his "hunt for the championship". (Though ultimately Juan Pablo came up 11 points short, but thats another story).

Michael may have a (possible) championship to consider, but he also has the brain to work out if something is going to go in his favour, resisting Juan Pablo at both Spa and last weekend weren't going to aid him, championship or not.

[banzai_2001]

On pace Rosberg can destroy Webber, (over hyped and totally useless) but lacks F1 experience. If both are at williams expect Rosberg to finish off webbers career.

[kevinq]

Originally Posted by banzai_2001

On pace Rosberg can destroy Webber, (over hyped and totally useless) but lacks F1 experience. If both are at williams expect Rosberg to finish off webbers career.

Yeah, Rosberg has really showed Webber the way around Indy this weekend

Hopefully we won't get to see your well thought out prediction come true as Webber needs to get out of that Williams ASAP.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by kevinq

Hopefully we won't get to see your well thought out prediction come true as Webber needs to get out of that Williams ASAP.

He'll be there for a while yet.

[kevinq]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

He'll be there for a while yet.

It does seem like he will be with Williams again next year. I just hope they aren't in for another 're-building year' if they go to Toyota engines. Mark is no spring chicken and he can't afford too many more years in another mid-field or unreliable car (choose one or the other, depending on the race weekend) IMO.

Back to Nico. Hopefully he can make a name for himself without trying to shaft his teammate (eg trying to run him off the track earlier in the year and Canada's qualifying block).