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21 May 2011, 15:52 (Ref:2883530) | #726 | ||
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+1 same designer as the turk circuit.
+1 close to one of the better cities in the us +1 its called circuit of the americas...not usa. im in |
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21 May 2011, 19:08 (Ref:2883594) | #727 | ||
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I am a bit more concerned about the success of the Indian Grand Prix myself..
But we will have to wait and see if the race in Austin is successful? |
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24 May 2011, 20:22 (Ref:2885417) | #728 | |||
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The problem of poor transportation infrastructure also looms over the race. As far as I know, the question of who will pay for expanding the roads around the track remains unsettled. If there are massive traffic jams the first year, that will have a negative impact on attendance the next year. The novelty and glamour will wear off even more quickly. Another problem for Austin is the lack of an American driver and/or team. The key to soccer (football) finally becoming somewhat popular in the U.S. (though nowhere near as popular as American football, basketball and baseball) was the emergence of the U.S. as a minor soccer power and the development of some native-born American star players. I don't see any American F1 driver or team on the horizon that would spur American interest in F1. It's the same in any country--interest in F1 picks up in any country when one of its drivers is doing well. |
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24 May 2011, 20:27 (Ref:2885424) | #729 | ||
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A guest editorial from the Austin paper:
Aleshire: If F1 racing is so lucrative, it shouldn't need public funding Bill Aleshire, Local Contributor statesman.com Sunday, May 22, 2011 The more we hear about what a financially lucrative business Formula One is, the more taxpayers should object to using tax dollars to support it. If F1 is truly such a good business to locate in Austin, it should have enough "fuel" to make it around the track on its own from the starting line... ...F1 relies on magical math. F1 claims there will be increases in some consumption tax revenue (sales, alcohol, hotel, etc.) if it comes here. Thus, by kicking that revenue back to it, it says this is really "free" to the taxpayers. The error in such thinking is that every profitable business has the same effect without such tax kickbacks. It's unfair and utter nonsense to give these chosen few businesses back the taxes they generate, leaving the rest of the taxpayers to actually fund the government... Aleshire, an Austin lawyer, was Travis County judge between 1987 and 1998. |
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Vive les F1 Babes de Montreal! |
25 May 2011, 15:36 (Ref:2885755) | #730 | ||||
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an ancient American adage. 'If you build it they will come!'
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from the linked article: Quote:
every F1 race exists because of government help. every major sport in the US exists because of government help and that includes the use of public money. i cant even think of one major sport anywhere that is self sufficient and doesn't either rely on direct handouts from government or indirect subsidies in the form of property tax breaks and loan security for stadium/arena projects or spending on ancillary services like hotels, road, parking, hospital, police and fire services, and airport construction. as a sports fan and a tax payer (in Canada of course but so is Montreal so i hope the fact that they accept public funds doesn't keep you from visiting)i love thats what my gov't spends money on. in a somewhat unrelated matter, my city just got screwed out of reclaiming our lost NHL team the Winnipeg Jets from Phoenix because they decided that their gov't should pay to keep them in Phoenix. anyways its all good because we are going to get Atlanta's team with the help of our local gov't and the countless millions in infrastructure renewal and improvement that will come with it. |
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25 May 2011, 20:57 (Ref:2885880) | #731 | |||
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25 May 2011, 21:32 (Ref:2885894) | #732 | ||
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I was thinking more along the lines of he should have left things alone in Watkins Glen, New York 31 years ago.
Salable land in the Northeast is too rare and too expensive anymore. Also, good transport links north of NYC aren't very plentiful. Liberty Park, or whatever the place was in New Jersey was NOT on. Monticello in Upstate New York would have REQUIRED COMPLETE bulldozing and reconstruction, and road links to it weren't anywhere near adequate, I don't think. California and Texas are really the only places in the lower 48 with a desirable enough geographic location, sufficient population density, and enough truly open land to make a new GP circuit project really doable. And land in California particularly is still NOT all that cheap relatively speaking. Also, a track in the vicinity of L.A. would face the same, or worse, traffic issues as Austin for those trying to drive to the race. |
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26 May 2011, 00:08 (Ref:2885932) | #733 | |||
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Where do you get your information from? I drive I35 every day and have done for many years, it does not appear that congested to me, unless there is a traffic accident of course.. |
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26 May 2011, 17:43 (Ref:2886290) | #734 | |||||
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Both academic economists and consultants reach a conclusion about the economic impact of professional sports franchises and facilities, but these two groups reach opposite conclusions. The clear consensus among academic economists is that professional sports franchises and facilities generate no “tangible” economic impacts in terms of income or job creation and are not, therefore, powerful instruments for fostering local economic development. The clear consensus among consultants who produce “economic impact studies” is that professional sports franchises and facilities generate sizable job creation, incremental income increases, and additional tax revenues for state and local governments. At the same time, I acknowledge that governments do subsidize sports facilities and events and that sometimes such subsidies may enjoy public support. I think it would be a good idea to always submit such proposed subsidies to a public referendum, as is often done in the U.S. with local bond issues for building public facilities like schools, libraries and roads (all of which have more obvious benefits to the public than sports facilities). I do applaud Tavo and his buddies for funding the race track with private money. But the private money would probably not be there if they hadn't been able to get the state to underwrite the cost of Bernie's rights fee ($25M/year for 10 years). Also, according to news reports, the city will probably have to chip in $4M/year to support the race and some government will have to pay a lot of money to upgrade the roads leading to the track. Quote:
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26 May 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2886406) | #735 | ||
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Montreal is great and am very envious of your trip.
Over the years they have truly encouraged this event. It has taken 30 plus years and is perhaps a model of how public finances can be used to benefit the local business community. Stepping back from my position i agree that this is not always the case and there are many examples of cities completely wasting funds to chase teams that do not have any true loyalty to the community that funds them. from what i read of your last link i do think it raises some very interesting points. namely the amount of money people have to spend on entertainment is fixed. having a new sporting events wont increase that amount as peoples incomes are also fixed. in effect it suggests that this will only take money away from other entertainment activities thereby not increasing the overall spend at all just funneling it towards subsidized activities crowding out the private sector which do not similar benefits. very fair point i must admit, although im not sure that this should be a concern for the people of Austin if the overall net effect means that people may choose to spend their money in Austin instead of traveling to Dallas/Fort Worth or San Antonio (NFL or NBA) to spend their sports entertainment dollars. surely the local gov't priority should be for its own local economy. I think Montreal is case and point for this. This event draws people from all over the world. Should the money those visitors are pulling out of their own local economies in order to spend in MTL be a concern for the Mtl gov’t? from another angle, how does a city like Austin compete against the bigger sports markets (again Dallas/Fort Worth or San Antonio) when those cities also subsidies their local sports franchises’? I suppose in this case they have chosen to fund F1. Only time will tell if it is a good investment or not. One day one of us will be eating our hats! Going off topic now (although i think i did that already). The one part of your argument that does resonate with me is your belief that it should be up to the people of that community to vote on this issue and not have it forced on them. Cant argue with that. problem is, here at least, the hype/hope surrounding a possible return of the NHL means most everyone would vote yes if asked. It wouldn’t be an informed yes mind you. as your last link suggests the promotional material used to sway peoples’ minds is just not empirical in nature and ultimately easier to believe. I cant fault people being swayed or for voting with their hearts im just not sure its going to get to any more of a reasonable conclusion than their representatives’ just doing what they were elected to do…spend the tax payers money for them. in the end i hope that encouraging development is valuable in its own right and sometimes its needs a little encouragement from the public sector. |
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26 May 2011, 20:50 (Ref:2886415) | #736 | ||
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CB, thanks for your thoughtful response. If you want to attend the Montreal race, then you should plan a trip. It's not even too late for this year. It's one of the most affordable events on the F1 calendar. If you (or anyone) needs advice on planning a trip to Le Grand Prix du Canada, just ask and I'll offer my advice...though this would be a better thread in which to ask about Montreal.
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26 May 2011, 21:10 (Ref:2886427) | #737 | ||
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thanks
i've been. lived there from 95-99 for uni. even got to go to a couple of races. live and in person for 95,97,and 10. happily enough though, family commitments are keeping me away this year. |
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2 Jun 2011, 13:44 (Ref:2889997) | #738 | ||
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This article from the Austin newspaper describes a plan to "widen" the main access road, FM 812, for the new track. The interesting thing about the plan is that they don't plan to actually, you know, widen the the road. They are just going to repave the current two lanes and the adjacent shoulders and then re-stripe the lanes to create four lanes from two with no shoulders.
This plan reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when Kramer "adopted" part of a 4-lane NYC highway and decided to repaint the lanes into just 2 extra-wide "comfort cruise" lanes. I see a race-weekend traffic disaster in the making. F1 developers' offer to help pay for FM 812 work on Travis commissioners' agenda today By John Maher AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Tuesday, May 31, 2011 Travis County commissioners could vote today on an agreement for racetrack developers to pay $375,000 of an estimated $1.5 million face-lift for a five-mile stretch of FM 812, which will be the main entrance to the $400 million venue southeast of Austin... FM 812 is described as a two-lane road, but the five-mile segment to be reworked has shoulders on both sides that allow slower-moving cars to be passed. The lanes are now 12 feet wide, the shoulders 10 feet wide. After the resealing, all lanes would be striped to be 11 feet wide... "It's not being widened in any way, shape or form," Lopez said... In September, county planners estimated that traffic delays tied to a Formula One race could be as long as 12 hours. A study done later by the consulting firm Kimley-Horn and Associates concluded that delays would be a little more then three hours, even without any improvements to existing roads... ____________________ Here is a Google Earth view of the area around the racetrack including the track area (red marker), State Highway 130, a four-lane road that will provide the main highway access to the track, and FM812, the main access road that will be "widened" from two lanes to four. |
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2 Jun 2011, 15:13 (Ref:2890028) | #739 | |
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that's the arrangement in place for the main road to the nurburgring... albeit in one direction. presumably it's the same going the other way. traffic isn't as bad as you'd think... at least not leaving. arriving it's a nightmare.
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2 Jun 2011, 23:40 (Ref:2890284) | #740 | ||
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Quote:
On arrival they need to set out parking lots in the fields around the track and direct the traffic to fill it logically. I take it they will helicopter the VIPs to and from the circuit - on race day at least. How far is Austin from the track ie how much traffic will the 130 hold before getting off at Austin becomes a problem, they should look at how they will clear the 130 once the traffic is on it. I am with you here Bella if properly handled there shouldn't be too much of a problem getting to and from the track. |
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3 Jun 2011, 14:11 (Ref:2890528) | #741 | ||
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among other news from the FIA today is a 2012 calendar giving Austin a Jun 17 date and just one week after Canada.
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...sc-030611.aspx Canada/USA back to back again! |
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3 Jun 2011, 14:43 (Ref:2890550) | #742 | |||
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4 Jun 2011, 18:44 (Ref:2891165) | #743 | |||
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6 Jun 2011, 14:18 (Ref:2892184) | #744 | ||
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i suppose it is its traditional spot. in light of the article BobHWS posted earlier, are your concerns about attendance, in so much as anyone who has the ability and means to attend a race will naturally choose Montreal over a new and untried venue?
presumably this could make the Austin race harder to promote...but not impossible. Indy (although there is an immense history there) did not have attendance problems prior to 2005 despite its close proximity in both dates and distance to Montreal. |
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6 Jun 2011, 15:04 (Ref:2892219) | #745 | ||
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never mind i see this is being talked about in the 2012 calendar thread.
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6 Jun 2011, 23:59 (Ref:2892526) | #746 | |||
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No I am not worried about attendance figures as I think it will be huge, at a *guess* I would expect between 150,000- 200,000 race fans over the course of the three day race weekend.. It's a bit close to the Canadian Grand Prix but it's fine, It will be hot of course, but then I was out in it today 99F and much of it is a state of mind with the ambient temp.. Of course I am not driving a F1 car in that heat.. |
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7 Jun 2011, 00:07 (Ref:2892529) | #747 | |||
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9 Jun 2011, 11:48 (Ref:2894234) | #748 | |||
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9 Jun 2011, 17:14 (Ref:2894487) | #749 | ||
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Well he certainly has a downer on the "British" doesn't he? What relevance is Bernie's nationality for heaven's sake?
And 95% of the British GP's audience are British? So what? It's a sell out annually and there are other Grand Prix within easy driving distance in Belgium and Germany. Just like a short hop if you're from Texas!! I can see why it's an easy target if budgets are being cut and schools are under pressure but I think if he revisits the issue in 5 years it will be seen as a success. I've been to Austin myself and it's a really great town, I think the GP will be very well suited there. With a bit of luck there could be a US Formula One driver again soon and that'll help. |
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9 Jun 2011, 17:57 (Ref:2894531) | #750 | ||
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And Watkins Glen certainly seemed to be a reasonably popular venue for the GP back in the day. It lasted for 20 seasons there for goodness' sake, so it couldn't have been that bad.
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