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15 Jul 2012, 21:25 (Ref:3106812) | #726 | ||
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How about this for an idea....go back to last year and leave the fecking series alone! There was nothing wrong with it as it was....
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16 Jul 2012, 07:26 (Ref:3106945) | #727 | ||
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Was there a big crowd?
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16 Jul 2012, 09:37 (Ref:3106995) | #728 | |||
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For GTC it probably works in the USA because there aren't hundreds of different places to run a Porsche GT3 Cup car, but in Europe it needs something to make it stand out a little because there are so many competing GT championships. Plus for me FLM doesn't make a lot of sense when you have the cheaper Speed series as your support race, but combine the two somehow and perhaps it'll work, particularly with the increase in CN car builders who might be looking for a future at Le Mans. Again, perhaps an LM support race would add incentive. |
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16 Jul 2012, 09:48 (Ref:3107006) | #729 | |
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LMPC/GTC support race wouldn't work in Europe simply because there is zero interest. Even when FLM cars had a support series of their own in 2009 there weren't that many entries
As I have been saying all along, there is one place where the PC/GTC support race would have been extremely useful -> Petit Le Mans. Obviously with the somewhat reduced field this year no need for that now |
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16 Jul 2012, 09:52 (Ref:3107011) | #730 | ||
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Mr. Peter ruined the LMS, placing Zolder (cancelled round) the same moment as the Ring 24 that was a joke. A joke too when you go at Donington while there is GT Open not far away. Let's be honest the WEC killed the LMS that's for sure, but the series origanizers are doing everything to make it worse.
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16 Jul 2012, 10:13 (Ref:3107040) | #731 | ||
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The teams all had interviews with Mr Peter and so no doubt he got lots of ideas. The summary on DSC this morning is interesting but IMO misses one very basic point: Doing well in either the old FIA GT series, the LMS or the ALMS got you one of the coveted LM 24 entries and so was a major incentive. Now all you have to have is enough money to enter the WEC/ILMS and you are there, no actual qualification required, just money!
This fact downgrades the LM24 in my eyes as it is just another race in a series and if the world series does not capture the imagination of the market then the "Great Race" will be the loser. I think we should seriously consider the LM24 being stand alone again, make it a reward for success? The world series would then have to be something that the entrants saw as worth winning and the series would have to compete for attention. |
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16 Jul 2012, 12:00 (Ref:3107121) | #732 | |
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IMO Le Mans should never have been part of the calendar (even in the old WSC days), and you have hit nail in the head - that is one the main reasons why the system doesn't work and why LMS has become less appealing for the teams. It also handicaps WEC as a championship as the entries are limited to 30 because of the Le Mans space issues, so primaly the ones with the biggest wallets get in
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16 Jul 2012, 12:31 (Ref:3107142) | #733 | ||
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There was no place that looked busy, just small groups around the track, where it was open. (Half the infield is still a building site.) I'd guess less than 1000; certainly less than back in 2006.
I was really in two minds whether to go or not, but I promised my boy weeks ago, and neither of us regretted it. |
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16 Jul 2012, 13:47 (Ref:3107185) | #734 | |||
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16 Jul 2012, 14:06 (Ref:3107204) | #735 | ||
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More forward plannng and a little co-operation and you could have a schedule as follows. Paul Ricard Nurburgring Donington/Brands Hatch Monza Barcelona Brno How the ELMS goes forward is very much dependent on how early they can sort their calender (the WEC will be announced at Sao Paulo) and what happend the FIA GT series, it could be the FIA strips those of their backing. |
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16 Jul 2012, 15:08 (Ref:3107238) | #736 | ||
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Lets not throw our dummies outta the pram too soon , isnt that what we all wanted in the first place , a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP !!!
Something had to suffer ..... lets face it , it doesnt look like the world can support the WEC , ALMS , ELMS and AsLMS right now . Plus there is every micky mouse series for GT's running too ..... |
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16 Jul 2012, 15:13 (Ref:3107243) | #737 | |||
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16 Jul 2012, 16:27 (Ref:3107265) | #738 | |||
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Sportscar racing has always been big in japan , but I feel they already have a popular and successful championship , without the AsLMS ..... but Asia is also bigger than Japan too . I feel there is way too many piddley GT series doing the rounds , and thats taking its toll too . Perhaps we should open a new thread for this ? |
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16 Jul 2012, 18:01 (Ref:3107309) | #739 | ||
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The fix... my ideas haven't changed on this for some time...
First, make WEC a LMP1 championship only. WEC races with ELMS and ALMS at select events. Say two ALMS, two ELMS, plus LM. Participation in WEC requires full participation in one of the ALMS or ELMS. If AsLMS ever actually gets off the ground () then we can incorporate them as well. GTE-PRO ends up with 8 entries, GTE-AM has 10 entries, if you assume that the two "American" entries go away, but the remaining stay. Even if you only include 18ish GTE entries, and a dozen LMP2 entries, ELMS now has a good field, as you've taken away the option for GTE cars. ELMS is strong again. With restricting WEC to LMP1, you also are highly unlikely to end up with entry numbers issues, so there will be no issues with running at Petit Le Mans, Sebring, Silverstone or Spa. ELMS is back to running at the classic tracks, with no other real competition for LMP2 or GTE cars. It is probable that both the ALMS and ELMS will pick up top level LMP1 teams that they don't currently have. It might also be probable that Dyson or Cytosport would consider running in the WEC, as it only adds TWO more races to their schedule. The "National/Domestic" series need the entrants and the quality, and the LMP1 manufacturers need the status of the WEC. |
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16 Jul 2012, 18:01 (Ref:3107310) | #740 | |||
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A WEC could be successful but the consequence would be, taken at its extreme, that you go from grids of 70 cars between ALMS and ELMS to just 20-30 cars. Many investors, teams, drivers, just don't have the interest, money, or time to be flying around the world all year long in places where their businesses don't exist or where they take too much time away from the businesses that allow them, their teams, and the drivers they hire to do what they do. You'll always need Regional Series, someway or another. Failing to do your part to support them is in the end suicide. We saw it with WSC. We'll see it with WEC if ACO is not careful. I don't even mention FIA because anything that gets close to F1's popularity is stepped on if not obliterated, and if ACO is stupid enough not to see it, it could happen. |
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*jingle* The New York Mets have a new left fielder... Duda, Duda “It's fine that F1 goes all over the world, but we must not exaggerate by going to race in deserts or where there is no culture for racing," di Montezemolo continued |
16 Jul 2012, 18:54 (Ref:3107329) | #741 | |
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The ALMS is a premier US series that ranks alongside NASCAR and Indycar.
The ELMS has only ever been a first step towards the return of the World Championship, it's been treated as such by manufacturers and the media since 2004. Today the ELMS could thrive with a top class that is affordable to many teams and see the cream rise to the top, rather than an Lmp 1 field with a couple of cars taking the spotlight. The ELMS is in desperate need of GT cars, they will baiscally accept anyone so it's a scary thought to think only 3 cars ran at Donington when there must be 200 or more eligable GT cars running in various series across the continent. Assume all is right with the 2013 ELMS in terms of the tracks and TV. If GT teams continue to stay away they'll eventually have to use the nuclear option, remove GTE cars from Le Mans. The only reason GT3 cars won't be at Le Mans in the next couple of years is because GTE manufacturers put their foot down, well, unless they put their foot down and tell their teams to support Le Mans series, Le Mans should invite CN cars as the third class with GT3 becoming the premier production class. |
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16 Jul 2012, 19:23 (Ref:3107343) | #742 | ||
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16 Jul 2012, 19:37 (Ref:3107346) | #743 | |
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LMP1-only WEC will never work... you would never get enough cars for full grid and you'd have to create sub classes for privateers as they're already fed up with the situation.
Why would the P1 grid see significant increase if the other classes were dropped? It's the top category even now so there's hardly anything bigger at stake and the series will never grow to be as big as the old WSC anyways. O.K so ACO could grant more entries but let's face it, ACO would've put 15 P1s to the WEC grid anyways if there had been enough interest this year (by reducing P2s or GTE-AMs most probably) One of the reasons for the failure of FIA GT1 WC is the single class formula... old FIA GT2 could have been a good backup category My preference: LM24 - merge GTE classes but keep the structure otherwise; stand-alone event WEC - LMP1 & LMP2 only ALMS - fine as it is though you may wanna merge P1/P2 like in 2010 ELMS - time to give up ASLMS - time to stop daydreaming dear ACO Non-IMSA GTEs could continue to run in IGTO Also, preferably re-introduce GT1 (not the old, but create a new one) to partly fix the waiver-bop mess we now have in GTE Last edited by Deleted; 16 Jul 2012 at 19:48. |
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16 Jul 2012, 20:05 (Ref:3107363) | #744 | ||
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I think there has been a misunderstanding. The WEC races would run in conjunction with ELMS and ALMS races, not as standalones. Only LMP1 cars are eligible to actually be in the championship. The full ALMS and ELMS grids would be there already.
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16 Jul 2012, 20:09 (Ref:3107366) | #745 | |
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Oh ok nvm then, I guess I only read a litte bit from the start that actually makes some sense
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16 Jul 2012, 20:25 (Ref:3107373) | #746 | |||
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16 Jul 2012, 20:31 (Ref:3107374) | #747 | ||
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Just out of curiosity, do any of you think an LMP2 sprint format would ever work? The ELMS would evolve into 1-hour sprint races with only one driver. And if numbers are low, add a second class like GTE-Am or GT3.
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16 Jul 2012, 20:36 (Ref:3107377) | #748 | ||
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No, the Pro-Am nature is one of the reasons that LMP2 is so popular. Where there are two Am's it also reduces the costs.
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16 Jul 2012, 20:45 (Ref:3107380) | #749 | |||
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The AsLMS will never catch on, but if it did you could see a schedule something like this: 1. Sebring 12h (alms) 2. Spa 6h (elms) 3. Le Mans 24h 4. Mosport 1000 (alms) 5. Road America 500 (alms) 6. Monza 6h (elms) 7. Silverstone 6h (elms) 8. Petit Le Mans (alms) 9. Fuji 6h (aslms) 10. Shanghai 6h (aslms) |
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16 Jul 2012, 21:29 (Ref:3107392) | #750 | ||
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Ok, this is a forum and it´s a place to daydream but you´re starting to daydreaming too much.
The World endurance championship won´t be a unique class championship, like the World Sportscar Championship was never a one class championship. This is not F1 and it has no sense. If you leave the WEC just with LMP1 you´ll have grids with no more than 10 cars. I don´t see anything wrong on the GTE-AM class, why do you hate that class that much? On sportcars there was always glenteman drivers (and the glentemen will be there in the future) and I don´t see anything wrong on having their own podium. There is nothing wrong on the private cup on LMP1 or the private cup of the WTCC, but why the GTE-AM is that bad? The lack of good organization on the WEC doesn´t started this year, of course the WEC made the final backstab, but the past year grid was poor and there was no WEC. Things are going from bad to worst since long time ago. There are a lot of problems in the ELMS -Bad tv coverage -Poor fan service (this year is the first with livestreaming, too late) -Wrong race lengs (It has no sense to have all the races with 6 hours leng and it has even less sense with this crisis) -Stupid schedule with coincidence with another championships -The championship is excesively expensive considering the competence -etc, etc, etc, etc..... |
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