Indycar News & Rumors.

[JohnSSC]

Ghosts. Ghosts from the past. Lola. Lotus. Names that are brought up fraught with meaning from the past history of those names. As we have seen with the convoluted fight over the Lotus name in F1 (and to a degree in IndyCar), resurrecting the name Lola is not the same thing as if this were the Lola of 25 years ago riding a big white horse to the rescue.

For as much in common with the Lola we all remember, the company could just as well be called Fluffy Bunny Racing Cars, LLC, Inc., US Pat Off.

Whether they get the Lights contract or not, the net effect is absolutely meaningless.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Ghosts. Ghosts from the past. Lola. Lotus. Names that are brought up fraught with meaning from the past history of those names. As we have seen with the convoluted fight over the Lotus name in F1 (and to a degree in IndyCar), resurrecting the name Lola is not the same thing as if this were the Lola of 25 years ago riding a big white horse to the rescue.

For as much in common with the Lola we all remember, the company could just as well be called Fluffy Bunny Racing Cars, LLC, Inc., US Pat Off.

Whether they get the Lights contract or not, the net effect is absolutely meaningless.

The net effect isn't meaningless at all. The deal with Multimatic and Carl Haas-Automotive has allowed LMP teams to continue racing Lola chassis and continue to be supplied with parts. This is quite different from Lotus.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Ghosts. Ghosts from the past. Lola. Lotus. Names that are brought up fraught with meaning from the past history of those names. As we have seen with the convoluted fight over the Lotus name in F1 (and to a degree in IndyCar), resurrecting the name Lola is not the same thing as if this were the Lola of 25 years ago riding a big white horse to the rescue.

For as much in common with the Lola we all remember, the company could just as well be called Fluffy Bunny Racing Cars, LLC, Inc., US Pat Off.

Whether they get the Lights contract or not, the net effect is absolutely meaningless.

You beat me to it.

It means nothing really and at this point in time, the irl has not shown any interest in opening up their formula to any other car.

When Birrane bought Lola 15 years ago it was a functioning company. This Multimatic deal is mainly buying a few shreds of Lola. Lola as a race car company is dead.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You beat me to it.

It means nothing really and at this point in time, the irl has not shown any interest in opening up their formula to any other car.

When Birrane bought Lola 15 years ago it was a functioning company. This Multimatic deal is mainly buying a few shreds of Lola. Lola as a race car company is dead.

The guys running Lola LMP cars are happy.

[JohnSSC]

IIRC, when Lola went away they sold off most if not all of their open wheel stuff, including designs as well as the design team going away.

The folks running the Porsche LMP cars were happy with those as well and that meant zip as far as a segue to any sort of open wheel involvement. I am glad the guys running the Lola LMPs are happy. That fact is meaningless compared to what it would actually take fro them (Lola) to get back into open wheel at any level above FF.

Ghosts from the past are of no use in resurrecting this series. It saddens me that straws like this are being grasped at for want of good news of any kind.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

You beat me to it.

It means nothing really and at this point in time, the irl has not shown any interest in opening up their formula to any other car.

When Birrane bought Lola 15 years ago it was a functioning company. This Multimatic deal is mainly buying a few shreds of Lola. Lola as a race car company is dead.

Every dog has his day, MS...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Every dog has his day, MS...

And so has AOWR.

[mountainstar]

It's been a dead winter for news hasn't it? If it hadn't been for the previous canning of rodeo randy a few months ago this forum would have been stone cold dead for the past six months.

Nothing to give any hope for increasing attendance, tv ratings or sponsors. I think even the indy centric crowd has given up.

My own feelings are that of time is creating distance and the great era of CART is now getting up to generation away and memories are fading. It's gone and never coming back and I think unless there is new ownership, there is zero hope of anything in the future. The indy motor speedway is just a relic of the 20th century.

[JohnSSC]

It has gotten so bad, MS, that CART has become almost a magical association; all one has to do is utter the name of someone or some entity associated with CART and surely the "magic" will return as a result.

Lola has sold off most of their assets. The new company, which retained the name but not the assets wants to return to open wheel racing. Lovely. The name Carl Haas is bandied about as if by some mystical process he will no longer be a billion years old and PLN will be resurrected. What many here forget is that Haas was Lola distributor for years. He made a fortune as the only source for parts for Lola Cars here. Owners complained about his practices and prices (sound familiar?) of spare parts.

This is what really makes me both sad and mad. This grasping at names and whisps of reputations from these ghosts. Well the reality is that the ghosts have no substance. Lola is no more likely to return to any sort of open wheel racing than Reynard is at the "top level."

AOWR exists for what reason? I keep asking this and no one has an answer. The fans are staying away in droves both at races and on TV. The sponsors have no interest. The tracks have no interest. Drivers have an interest because they all want to drive SOMEWHERE. Ganassi, Penske, et al essentially have a series that serves their business models. I'd love to sit down with them and find out why they do it. Maybe they don't know but I highly doubt that Penske is in this today for any of the same reasons he got into it a billion years ago when the world was young...

Oh, and if you want to know how far I have come on this, ask any of the old-timers here how MS and I would go at it on these boards with me taking the position opposite his. While I do not agree in totality with MS now, there are a number of key points that I agree on. We both would agree, I am sure, that this series is beyond "troubled" right now.

[Paradise City]

MmmMmMMMMmmm...CART

[TheMightyM]

I wish it were just CART ghosts they were chasing. That would be an improvement. Consider the return of doubleheaders. That very much predates CART. Or even the Triple Crown, which happened from 1971 to 1989, and ended before CART's peak. It makes you wonder what sort of demographic IndyCar is chasing — senior citizens? AOWR stat heads whose faith in the series has lapsed? People that grew up in Midwest?

Don’t see how much of this increases the series’ appeal to those under 40, especially those that aren’t from, say, Indiana.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

MmmMmMMMMmmm...CART

[Alex K]

Lad's in 1.5 Miller's Mailbag Miller sez that Viso might get a one off at Indy. Is it my English cridibles deserted me, or is Viso out?

By any means he should've found something by now.

[spider]

Surely a lot of the interest has dwindled due to the extremely ugly cars (thanks IRL/Dallara) and the lack of manufacturers building engines/chassis.

Surely if they just took a step back and work out what the fans want, what worked so well with CART and look to start afresh in, say, 2015/16 that would be a good step. Put together a calendar with the US'/Mexico/Canada's best circuits, as well as an interesting coverage/social media package for the series to create a logical commercial platform.

Put together some rules that encourage the design teams within the manufacturers to come up with clean, beautiful cars - and engine regulations that maybe aren't too dissimilar from the F1 regs to make the transition of the Mercedes'/Ferrari's/Renault's/Cosworth's etc to the newly launched series.

Get the promoters to talk to Silicon Valley - really come up with some interesting and engaging social media/technology tie-ups that raise awareness to new and emerging audiences, something that no motorsport series has done successfully to date.

It would generate a lot of excitement, goodwill and momentum...

[Alex K]

Spider wehat you are saying spikes costs. There is no money for extra chassis, updating current chassis... there is not even proper telly coverage - which is a must be for a series that wants to be next best thing.

[JohnSSC]

Define "beautiful."

Sorry, it is the racing, not the subjective things like the "beauty" of the cars that attracts fans first.

Why would "Silicon Valley" be interested in a product that has absolutely no tie-in to what they do? Is IndyCar innovative? No. Is it cutting edge? No. Is it sophisticated from a data management perspective? No.

Sorry, but this is just one more post where a company/industry making a profit has been identified and therefore they are somehow a perfect fit. Heck, energy companies are making record profits, IndyCars race using an alternative fuel and there has not exactly been a mad rush for them to sponsor what would seem to be something exactly up their marketing alley.

You could convert the entire field to Maserati 250F's tomorrow and yes, the cars would be beautiful and no, the series would not be any more successful.

[Paradise City]

I strongly disagree. I think if the cars do not look convincing then good racing is less credible in the public mind.

Beautiful isn't the right word but they do need to look intimidating, muscular and fast. If they don't, they don't turn heads.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Alex K

Spider wehat you are saying spikes costs. There is no money for extra chassis, updating current chassis... there is not even proper telly coverage - which is a must be for a series that wants to be next best thing.

Your statement is the problem with this whole series and I've harped on it for years.

People keep going on about costs, costs, costs, costs.

What about some revenue?

The revenue side of the business is the problem and it's a product no one wants to buy. It's like a restaurant that sells unappetizing bad food and then cuts it's costs and cuts corners even further. It's a self fulfilling prophecy of doom.

The indy racing league should be on Gordon Ramsay's "Kitchen Nightmares".

[Canada ALMS fan]

CART - we didn't truly realize how lucky we were until it was gone. I thought it would never end. I know why the old guys long for the old days of racing, first I lost CART and now the ALMS. I really was excited for Indycar in 2012, felt like it could be a new beginning - 3 engines, Randy, Rubens, new car, body kits coming. The racing was great. With most of the things I listed now gone I am finding my "give a damn" is broken for AOW once again.

[HJJ]

Originally Posted by Alex K

Lad's in 1.5 Miller's Mailbag Miller sez that Viso might get a one off at Indy. Is it my English cridibles deserted me, or is Viso out?

By any means he should've found something by now.

Viso news here.

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...is-2013-plans/

[spider]

John - good reply to my suggestion, I absolutely understand your point.

But, motorsport as a whole hasn't embraced new technologies very well and the audiences that are out there on a number of social media platforms.

I remember when A1GP was launched, they did a big push in the Metro (a free paper that's distributed in London and on the train network into London) - they did a wrap-around of the F/Cover.

The result was a huge amount of awareness. A standard comment when non-motorsport people mentioned A1 was "oh that's the series where all the cars are the same - so it's down to the drivers, i get that" - as if it's the only series with that setup. For a new series the attendance was excellent at the opening round and there was a large number of first-timers, who loved the experience. Indycar and motorsport as a whole could attract these people in (not just for F1 events).

If Indycar engaged with the likes of Facebook/YouTube/Skype even Linkedin - to find a common ground where they could stream races etc, but more importantly engage with a PR company (over here, Max Clifford would be perfect), to help build the profile up to the general public on a personalities basis.

The 'beautiful cars' comment perhaps isn't descriptive enough, but you understand my point I hope. The sight and sound of a racing car should be 'dream' like, and suitable for posters etc. The current and previous Indycars since CART have absolutely failed on this side of things. People want to see fast, sexy cars with a stunning exhaust note driven by personalities they can buy-into. It's why NASCAR works, it's why F1 does. It's a major factor in Indycar's failure.

On the point stating that it would be nigh-on impossible to get-in new manufacturers is based on how the series is right now. Putting the right commercial package together is crucial - get the public's interest and make sure you reach them in a clever/large-scale way, then revenues will follow. But it's a little chicken and egg - as you need the right product (tracks/cars/people) to get that audience. The product isn't appealing enough at the moment and the way the series is trying to reach its audience isn't working.

So, rather than panic and try and put band-aids on it all, why not have a target date/year to do a proper relaunch and get everything aligned for then?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by spider

So, rather than panic and try and put band-aids on it all, why not have a target date/year to do a proper relaunch and get everything aligned for then?

The ownership doesn't see it that way. The track they own is the speedway and as long as they have a series to run the indy 5 hunnert, they are happy. It was the same myopic vision that lead to USAC failing in the late 70's.

I thought the big relaunch was the beginning of last season with the long drawn out drama over the new car and engines that turned out to be a bust?

The only way to change things is new ownership.

[Mystery]

The advert at the foot of this page was for a 2005 Indy Car Xbox game. Says it all really. The series has lost it's way since Dan's accident. That day saw a lot of people in and out the sport turn against the high speed ovals - and now the series has no identity and little purpose other than the 500 itself. When Mansell joined he was a champion. Now you're grateful a former winner of a couple of GPs joined. For a year. Quite sad

[IndyDonut]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

The ownership doesn't see it that way. The track they own is the speedway and as long as they have a series to run the indy 5 hunnert, they are happy. It was the same myopic vision that lead to USAC failing in the late 70's.

I thought the big relaunch was the beginning of last season with the long drawn out drama over the new car and engines that turned out to be a bust?

The only way to change things is new ownership.

The current owners will drive this series into the grave before they hand over control and take orders. We've just seen it.

I would give the "new car" thing another go. The DW12 is bloody awful. It's the size of a bus and looks about as appealing. It's wide (over 2,000 mm wide), it's long (over 5,000 milimeters and that's with a small engine and fuel tank), it's tall, it's slow, it's ugly. A terrific combination for a series trying to survive.

The turbo engines achieve neither the great efficiency nor crazy boosted power of a turbo engine. They're just there. How they ended up at 2.2 liters for a displacement choice is beyond me. Either 1.8 (chop two cylinders off a current F1 engine) or 1.6 (to go with 2014 F1 engine displacement) V6s would've been better off, and with higher turbo boost to make more than the laughable 550-600 ponies they make now. Either size would've been better as they could piggy-back of F1 development, and in case of 1.6, also ACO programs with the 2014 LM regulations essentially accepting F1 2014 engines.

A school bus with a clunker powerplant for a new spec chassis. New fans here we come.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Sorry, it is the racing, not the subjective things like the "beauty" of the cars that attracts fans first.

I disagree as well. For me it is the cars first, then the racing. You need both to provide a solid product to the fans.