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30 May 2019, 11:09 (Ref:3906936) | #726 | ||
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 870
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What do you mean, "great while they lasted"? They still happen!
I like this series so far. The organisers have actually put effort into attracting a quality entry and it's presented well. Just a shame that the Aussies have ad-breaks during the live TV coverage, which isn't acceptable when the races are 25 minutes long. |
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There are no such things as races which are too long, only people whose attention spans are too short. |
30 May 2019, 20:02 (Ref:3907038) | #727 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,339
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Who are in the MPC cars for the next round?
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30 May 2019, 20:12 (Ref:3907043) | #728 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 444
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Two more Audis. Over twenty cars in the country now.
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The cat has my tongue and I'm not saying much cause I get shy around bulls*&% - Paul Dempsey |
30 May 2019, 22:32 (Ref:3907067) | #729 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,704
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Maybe controversial but instead of replacing Supercars as some have claimed, could TCR actually kill off AGT?
Pretty killer platform for the well heeled to arrive and drive. Better than spending half a million to go fast until the next guy gets a better rig. And by comparison crashes are not going to cost a lot. Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk |
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30 May 2019, 22:57 (Ref:3907069) | #730 | |||
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,117
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Quote:
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In the words of the Great Forrest Gump: I'm not a smart man, but at least I know where the Dog on the Tuckerbox is |
30 May 2019, 23:03 (Ref:3907071) | #731 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 6,704
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Yeah, but I think GT is in decline because of hugely rising costs of the latest toy, and a tightening of the economy. I think guys like MSR and MPC are on the money with this model.
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31 May 2019, 06:06 (Ref:3907097) | #732 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,339
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Quote:
Any problems GT3 have will likely have the same outcome in TCR |
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31 May 2019, 07:16 (Ref:3907104) | #733 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
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Not when the cars are a third of the price to buy and run.
They're also trying to reign in Lynk & Co, for not entirely conforming to the spirit of the rules, but this is difficult when they're only running in WTCR where the rulemakers aren't acting in the best interests of the core principles of TCR. |
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31 May 2019, 07:17 (Ref:3907105) | #734 | |
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 854
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31 May 2019, 09:15 (Ref:3907123) | #735 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,014
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Quote:
But, when you load GT3 cars with A-grade drivers who push them flat out, the public and genuine commercial sponsorship is very much interested -- the Bathurst 12 hour shows this. TCR unlike AGT, has no driver grade restrictions and is all the better for it. I think AGT could be a premier Australian class in it's own right if all A-driver lineups were permitted. Frankly, give AGT & the 12 hour to ARG. Let them package combined TCR & AGT race weekends for the public, TCR as a support class at the 12 hour too. Almost certainly, the TCR/AGT/12hr series package WILL attract trackside advertising and television broadcast sponsorship from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Hyundai, Honda and maybe others. Likewise, it will gleefully deprive Supercars of those same dollars... Win, win all round to break Supercars dominance! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 31 May 2019 at 09:24. |
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31 May 2019, 10:19 (Ref:3907130) | #736 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,611
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Quote:
In Aus GT case it’s not just costs that are its problem. Disgruntled competitors (past and present) being a big one. When you have people that can afford to race in AGT but would rather spend their money elsewhere because of unhappiness in how the category is run then it’s apparent cost isn’t the only issue. |
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Somebody asked if the McLaren F1 was going to be like the Ferrari F40, Gordon Murray replied, "I don't think so, there's no one at McLaren who can weld that badly." |
31 May 2019, 10:24 (Ref:3907132) | #737 | ||
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
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Quote:
I have run both car's, admittedly only one 3 hour endurance so far in our Hyundai i30N TCR car, but a season in our Gen2 Audi R8 GT3 car. Audi Sport advise R8 car owners to charge A$18 per kilometre, just to cover component lifeing. Given that a new GT3 car cost in excess of A$600K plus spares etc, and on average has a useful life of say, 3 maybe 4 years, then the return on investment alone has to be at least $100K per year if not more to cover the significant depreciation of the car over 3 years. A new Audi TCR car cost A$250K, and cost about one third of the cost to run in terms of lifeing, principally because the critical components, such as the VAG engine, cost less than A$10K complete with new turbo etc. Tire and brake cost's are approximately one third the cost because the rear end does very little work, and in our first 3 hour race we only used a total of 6 tires at A$430 each. The front brake pads do a lot of work as does the front tires, so a new set of front brake pads for the race weekend, plus the rear brake pads are so tiny they also need replacing after a 3 hour racer but they are less than half the cost of the front pad's, so again not a big expense. Fuel cost are similar but TCR engines are quite happy running on BP98 pump gas, so fuels not a big cost component. TCR races are normally sprint racing events so no need for expensive refuelling rigs and the associated manpower needed to refuel are needed, so big saving on manpower needed to run the car. You are not allowed ABS, or telemetry, or centre lock wheels so spare wheels are "Cheap as chips" $A400 each for for BRAID wheels, which are the OE supplied factory wheel. Summing it all up, TCR racing budgets should be around one third of a GT3 car, and even less if you buy a good second hand car for say A$175K. Cheers, Mark. |
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31 May 2019, 14:21 (Ref:3907175) | #738 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,721
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Great insight Mark.
Its definitely gaining momentum. |
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GO Hard or GO Home |
31 May 2019, 19:51 (Ref:3907202) | #739 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 854
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Thank you Mark, very interesting stuff.
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31 May 2019, 21:26 (Ref:3907209) | #740 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,661
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$18/km??
Holy smoke! 312 laps at the 12-Hour. That's $35K just for the car. No fuel. No personnel. No crashes. No entry fee. No paid drivers. No coffee machines. No overalls. No wonder TCR is getting a foothold... |
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31 May 2019, 22:45 (Ref:3907220) | #741 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,394
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And you have to include any testing, practice and qualifying laps as well, so the 'lifeing' cost increases pro rata
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1 Jun 2019, 00:10 (Ref:3907229) | #742 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
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Quote:
Its the reason I sold my GT3 car, as the real costs are unrecoverable. We looked at doing the Bathurst 12 hour, however when we ran the spread sheet on it came to 250K, without any crash damage provision! |
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1 Jun 2019, 03:19 (Ref:3907249) | #743 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,220
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Is there much variation of costs among the marques in TCR Mark?
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The Jerk Store rang... |
1 Jun 2019, 07:49 (Ref:3907256) | #744 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 968
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I am far from an expert, however, given that the lowest cost brand new TCR race car is a Seat, and that use the exact same VAG [VW] engine as does the VW and Audi TCR cars.
So the biggest cost differential would surely have to be the cost of spare parts. The Audi S3 is the most expensive brand new TCR car, and I am told that the Audi composite panels are very expensive. The Hyundai i30N uses an Xtrac transmission which is more expensive to purchase than the Sadev transmission, but require less maintenance, so its swings and round about's from what I can see. |
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1 Jun 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3907257) | #745 | ||
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Sweet, thanks mate.
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The Jerk Store rang... |
1 Jun 2019, 08:13 (Ref:3907258) | #746 | ||
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Posts: 3,220
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The Jerk Store rang... |
2 Jun 2019, 07:11 (Ref:3907458) | #747 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,405
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Quote:
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/06/02...ustralia-grid/ |
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2 Jun 2019, 09:05 (Ref:3907470) | #748 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,692
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That is a big boost to have a name like Tander in the series, so that's great news
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He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
3 Jun 2019, 07:18 (Ref:3907660) | #749 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 675
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As I've said before, those Subaru's are utter crap. But also, the Kelly's should have worked out before purchasing if they could reach lower weight limits - with compensation weights being key to the TCR formula.
Running an overweight car is a big handicap, Heimgartner drove the wheels off the turd box at round one! https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/06/03...w-weight-regs/ |
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3 Jun 2019, 07:25 (Ref:3907661) | #750 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
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They don't own them.
Whilst the cars have shown some potential, I'm certain Top Run are glad they're gone. |
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