How to fix F1?

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Very good if rather depressing post.

It would be, if posted about 15 years ago.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by loon

It will be interesting to see how Liberty use AI to manipulate their viewers I a post-truth, fake news environment, imagine Verstappen crashing into a back-marker in one of the races, AI will recognise that Max is the more famous and therefore an easier commodity to monetise so will inform the viewer that the crash was the back-markers fault, or perhaps AI will already know that you are a Verstappen fan and tailor its comments depending on your views. Everything that happens in the race will be fake news !! happy viewing !!

If only they allowed it to predict incidents and radio drama! I can imagine the commentator saying... "Well, we are hearing that the AI expects Max to crash into someone within the next two laps!"

It could also predict interview response in the media corral as well. For some (like Kimi) it might be highly accurate!

"Question: Kimi, (insert anything here)?
Predicted Answer: Bwoah"

Richard

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If only they allowed it to predict incidents and radio drama! I can imagine the commentator saying... "Well, we are hearing that the AI expects Max to crash into someone within the next two laps!"

It could also predict interview response in the media corral as well. For some (like Kimi) it might be highly accurate!

"Question: Kimi, (insert anything here)?
Predicted Answer: Bwoah"

Richard

They could of course script the interview questions, the drivers replies and use the drivers for cross promotion of the after event concert that they are looking forward to immensely. Happy times!

This sport is beginning to look desperate!

Great summary of F1's troubles and very accurate post from Casper Post #715:

F1 has run itself into a cul de sac of its own making, no one forced the category to go the way it has and like all class racing it has an expiry date in the form it is now in. Anyone who thinks it can be fixed by playing around with minor changes is either smoking something or plain delusional. The fact of the matter is none of the stakeholders (trendy word of the day) want any significant changes at all except either more money or a lower spend. I doubt they even want more teams as that would dilute the money available overall. Every forum on the interwebs has every person posting their magic fix including me and none of them have a hope in hell of being accepted by the stakeholders or being accepted by the audience because no one can agree. Given time I expect it to die of its own free will, not immediately but over the next decade or so because it is not a cohesive sport in the true sense. "

[Skam85]

At least they're trying something, albeit minor.
Only dead fish go with the flow.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Maybe and just maybe, Liberty's AI will 'interfere' with the car's telemetry, thus predicting whatever result they were going to predict.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by loon

It will be interesting to see how Liberty use AI to manipulate their viewers I a post-truth, fake news environment, imagine Verstappen crashing into a back-marker in one of the races, AI will recognise that Max is the more famous and therefore an easier commodity to monetise so will inform the viewer that the crash was the back-markers fault, or perhaps AI will already know that you are a Verstappen fan and tailor its comments depending on your views. Everything that happens in the race will be fake news !! happy viewing !!

I knew this post reminded me of something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQsPenSt3x0

[Casper]

So Liberty are going to inject "spoilers" into to the online coverage....that ought to go well. Humans don't operate in a clinical black/white world, they like chance and the unknown in things like games and sports. The way it is presented in the AS article makes it seem that the engineers & teams will be able to watch each other on the tube and make tyre decisions they could not before. For the average viewer there is such a thing as sinformation overload where it becomes simply too hard to follow the plot.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Casper

So Liberty are going to inject "spoilers" into to the online coverage....that ought to go well. Humans don't operate in a clinical black/white world, they like chance and the unknown in things like games and sports. The way it is presented in the AS article makes it seem that the engineers & teams will be able to watch each other on the tube and make tyre decisions they could not before. For the average viewer there is such a thing as sinformation overload where it becomes simply too hard to follow the plot.

Good point, the other problem is the viewers who don't care about the aspect of the sport that is emphasized and simply turn away.
For my part, I don't care about either strategy or tyres, I wish to see wheel to wheel racing.

[VIVA GT]

For me, all of this AI prediction nonsense will take even more out of the racing and make it less interesting. If we *know* that certain drivers will be stopping ol lap such and such and will come back out in a certain position, if it's tight it'l be like reading a race report afterwards so I don't bother watching the race I've recorded.

[Peter Mallett]

I think there are many who feel the same. Personally if technology is your bag then fine but anyone with any smidgen of a competitive streak will consider all this dicking around as er, dicking around.

We want racing with proper engines, reduced aero and manual gearboxes.

*I already know who will suggest I'm old fashioned and out of step. Well so be it.

[V8 Fireworks]

Should F1 cars look more like this 2016 Pirelli show car on 2017 tyres?

Fat tyres, short wheelbase, elegant nose, elegant front wing, no sharkfin, no halo...



---- Impossible?

[S griffin]

Definitely like the look of that. Would probably improve the racing too

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Should F1 cars look more like this 2016 Pirelli show car on 2017 tyres?

Fat tyres, short wheelbase, elegant nose, elegant front wing, no sharkfin, no halo...



---- Impossible?

It's much better, but the front and rear wings are still too big?

The current F1 wings are huge downforce/aero aids that need reducing significantly.

Before someone says, 'yes but that would make the cars extremely difficult to drive or very tricky to master', well yes, that's the whole point of driving F1 cars isn't it?

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

We want racing with proper engines, reduced aero and manual gearboxes.

*I already know who will suggest I'm old fashioned and out of step. Well so be it.

(Race long harder tyres, too...'shouldn't have to pit...err...box. )

I do!!! I do!!! (jumping up and down)

And, I likes it....

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think there are many who feel the same. Personally if technology is your bag then fine but anyone with any smidgen of a competitive streak will consider all this dicking around as er, dicking around.

We want racing with proper engines, reduced aero and manual gearboxes.

*I already know who will suggest I'm old fashioned and out of step. Well so be it.

You are old fashioned and out of step.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

You are old fashioned and out of step.

It is such a beautifully predictable world, isn't it........

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Yep, every time the arguments run out it's back to whining about the good old days that never really even existed in the first place

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yep, every time the arguments run out it's back to whining about the good old days that never really even existed in the first place

But they did.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

But they did.

My family are going to see a pantomime at the weekend. I'll just save a few days worth of the F1 forum and enjoy it with a pint or two.

Or "oh no I won't" etc, ad nauseum.

[chillibowl]

personally i like hand crafted furniture more than mass produced furniture and as a modern day consumer im prepared to pay more for that...and given the prices of hand made stuff im pretty sure im not the only one.

machines building machines may very well be the future, but as a consumer i am far more interested in seeing the product of a group of people sitting around a drafting board and designing a bespoke vehicle meant for racing.

that may very well be old fashion but i would counter that by saying the F1 mind set starting circa 2000's (aero, CFD, supercomputers, real time data acquisition) is, from a sporting point of view, the truly antiquated path.

to each their own of course but old fashion is very different than antiquated imo. looking to the past, even far past, for solutions should be encouraged.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

looking to the past, even far past, for solutions should be encouraged.

Chillibowl's new rule book. It is simple, you are only allowed to use these tools...







I appreciate the sentiment. I suspect anyone in the business today would have zero interest in going down this path. Going back to rocks and sticks and not remaining current from a technique and tooling perspective would be career suicide for any engineer.

Richard

[chillibowl]

haha well i was being facetious there for the sake of effect so no i dont really expect anyone to seriously consider going back to some sort of year zero.

but maybe part of me thinks that as a society we are approaching (or are already in) a period of time where consumers (especially those with disposable income as well as young consumers) will be more interested in 'more human' creations and interactions even if it is only for a temporary throwback amount of time.

there is value for business there imo

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

personally i like hand crafted furniture more than mass produced furniture and as a modern day consumer im prepared to pay more for that...and given the prices of hand made stuff im pretty sure im not the only one.

I should have mentioned in my tongue in cheek post above that I agree with the bit above. I think that commodity items (plastic cups, etc.) and (searching for the right word)... "state of the art" items (combat aircraft, etc.) will continue to ride the wave of the modern industrial revolution in that they will rely more and more upon automation of all kinds (design and manufacturing primarily). That all methods to produce the "best" will be employed. With "best" being quantitatively measurable things (low cost, high performance, etc.)

But that there will remain a place for hand crafted "premium" products. These will be the things that have subjective value. And that in the future, as humans are automated out of their jobs, and assuming decent standards of living exist, we as a species may become individual niche craftsmen once again. But... there probably will remain a level of "haves and have nots" and us lowly craftsmen will be making premium products for the future rich. Some of us hopefully are lucky enough to be the future rich.

Richard (aka Nostradamus)

[jimclark]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Yep, every time the arguments run out it's back to whining about the good old days that never really even existed in the first place

So, it was all fantasy? All those magazines, newspapers, books and tiny bits on TV and radio...? And here I thought I would have liked to have been born sooner so I could have caught the evolution from the get-go (1950); a dream?
And 'haven't been "whining" about the past that didn't exist...hell, the racing is consistently closer now than "back in the day". But, ooohhh, the sounds and the visuals and suspense doesn't compare. All the "equalizing" in the world will not (and I believe it's inevitable for the short attention span "fans" of today) be the real show that was. 'Sorry so many haven't a clue.

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

But they did.

Oh. I wasn't dreaming?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

You are old fashioned and out of step.

and you are confused and lost in a field of smoke and mirrors!