[VASC19R25] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000, Mount Panorama 10-13th October (WITH POLL)

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Speedcafe's Analysis. The impact of Coulthard's slowdown. Interesting!!! Take a look.

Written by a bunch of sore losers.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Compromised

I mean, traveling at it's normal pace, the race would have finished under Saftey Car, but it was none too subtly on the go slow to fabricate a last lap dash. Pretty contrived wouldn't you say?

Are you new to Supercars?

The safety cars is purely an entertainment device and any relation to correct and proper SAFETY procedures is purely coincidental.

[Denosaur]

Originally Posted by chavez

Are you new to Supercars?

The safety cars is purely an entertainment device and any relation to correct and proper SAFETY procedures is purely coincidental.

We were discussing at the time, had the Safety Car gone at normal speed, like it did every other lap it did during the day, the race would have finished under yellow. But they slowed it down not to rack up the laps and obviously give the time to clear the car at the elbow.

Would have been nice to have a NASCAR style green-white-checkered finished and see atleast 3 laps of them going for it....

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

So $150,000 buys you a Bathurst title. I reckon they'll be queuing up next year with neatly stacked Greenbacks at the ready.

Honestly it is the most ****-weak decision ever made in Australian motorsport. The whole world, even Roger Penske, knows they cheated to win, they don't give a crap about cheating, and they'll do it again because there is no incentive not to. The fact the public is hammering the **** out of them on social media says it all. I hope they cope it at the GC all weekend too.

Paul Morris in the latest episode of Enforcer and The Dude during the interview with Glenn Seton while describing how he would theoretically slow the field said ''which people have done, we've seen people do in the past, Red Bull do it in the past, a couple of years ago'. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH1_9WrWgG0&t=6312s about 1:31.30 in)
It cost 888 nothing then!!! They got a bargain by comparison!!!

Penalty was fair enough.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by gtcapri

Paul Morris in the latest episode of Enforcer and The Dude during the interview with Glenn Seton while describing how he would theoretically slow the field said ''which people have done, we've seen people do in the past, Red Bull do it in the past, a couple of years ago'. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH1_9WrWgG0&t=6312s about 1:31.30 in)
It cost 888 nothing then!!! They got a bargain by comparison!!!

Penalty was fair enough.

Indeed he did.

It would seem DJRTP only really went wrong by extending the 20 second generally-accepted 'buffer' out to 47 seconds.

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by gtcapri

Paul Morris in the latest episode of Enforcer and The Dude during the interview with Glenn Seton while describing how he would theoretically slow the field said ''which people have done, we've seen people do in the past, Red Bull do it in the past, a couple of years ago'. ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH1_9WrWgG0&t=6312s about 1:31.30 in)
It cost 888 nothing then!!! They got a bargain by comparison!!!

Penalty was fair enough.

Dude also said a lot of other things in that very episode that were very damning of DJR Team Debriss. Do you want us to link you to those too - or link you to the admissions the team made when they pleaded guilty to unfair and unsporting conduct?

Has anyone in the series ever been done for unfair and unsporting conduct, or have they set a new low?

[Umai Naa]

New low - because once again, they have gone over and above to exploit ambiguities in the rules.

First it was the way in which the Mustang was designed and homologated, and now this.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Jerico

Still be interested if Scott did post his fastest 2nd sector under yellow?

Not his second-fastest, but pretty quick still and Whincup's sector 2 was actually faster. Both of them set their second-fastest in laps all day so I dare say a penalty for not obeying yellow/SC flags would be hard to argue against, if the established SC practice in the series wasn't such a joke (eg no penalty issued for crashing under SC in the past).

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

New low - because once again, they have gone over and above to exploit ambiguities in the rules.

First it was the way in which the Mustang was designed and homologated, and now this.

Rubbish, the Mustang was approved and signed off as legal, as far as the race is concerned the best car/driver/team won on the day and it would have been an injustice for that not to occur.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

First it was the way in which the Mustang was designed and homologated, and now this.

Mate, that one is Supercars fault 100%. Penske can design the car however they want, it's not up to them to homologate it.

The homologation process itself has always being a backyard job at best, yet Supercars faithful were more than happy to defend it. Now it's somehow Penske's fault???

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

exploit ambiguities in the rules.

!!!THE HORROR!!!

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

New low - because once again, they have gone over and above to exploit ambiguities in the rules.

First it was the way in which the Mustang was designed and homologated, and now this.

have you watched the video on how the Mustang was developed and who was involved in the process once the car was designed, obviously not or you wouldn't make such a stupid statement.

[Trevor]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Rubbish, the Mustang was approved and signed off as legal, as far as the race is concerned the best car/driver/team won on the day and it would have been an injustice for that not to occur.

Spot one, and signed on as legal not only by Penske, but a whole stack of people including Holden people, Supercars people and FPR

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

New low - because once again, they have gone over and above to exploit ambiguities in the rules.

First it was the way in which the Mustang was designed and homologated, and now this.

What happened to your impartiality?

[Umai Naa]

I don't have to pick sides, to point out the obvious cock-ups in the catagory.

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

Dude also said a lot of other things in that very episode that were very damning of DJR Team Debriss. Do you want us to link you to those too - or link you to the admissions the team made when they pleaded guilty to unfair and unsporting conduct?

Has anyone in the series ever been done for unfair and unsporting conduct, or have they set a new low?

Dont crack the sads.... Knock yourself out. List the 888 ones over the years while your at it. It was YOU who didnt want to admit that it had happened before. Does that make you a liar or was it a mistake?

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

New low - because once again, they have gone over and above to exploit ambiguities in the rules.

First it was the way in which the Mustang was designed and homologated, and now this.

Who's 'they'? Name a professional team that doesn't exploit the boundaries of the rules? Was not this the term being used when the ZB turned up with alloy panels?

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by gtcapri

Dont crack the sads.... Knock yourself out. List the 888 ones over the years while your at it. It was YOU who didnt want to admit that it had happened before. Does that make you a liar or was it a mistake?

I didn't claim it hadn't happened before; I asked if anyone else has been done for unfair and unsporting conduct.

And so far it seems the answer is no, prior to this no one else has been charged with let alone admitted such a serious breach. So no one can list all the 888 ones over the years as no one else (including 888) have ever been done for unfair and unsporting conduct...DJR Team Debriss have that unsavoury stat all to themselves (I think, I might be wrong, which is why I phrased it as a question not a statement).

Do you want to list all the times 888 have been charged with, let alone accepted and pleaded guilty to, unfair and unsporting conduct? I mean it hasn't happened in real life, but maybe it has happened in your bizaro world where Natsoft does not show lap-by-lap breakdowns and JW was a lap down in 2015?

JW a lap down; Natsoft only showing final race results not lap-by-lap stats...do these statements you made make you a liar or just mistaken?

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

I didn't claim it hadn't happened before; I asked if anyone else has been done for unfair and unsporting conduct.

And so far it seems the answer is no, it has not happened before now so no one can list all the 888 ones over the years as no one else (including 888) have ever been done for unfair and unsporting conduct...DJR Team Debriss have that unsavoury stat all to themselves.

Do you want to list all the times 888 have been charged with, let alone accepted and pleaded guilty to, unfair and unsporting conduct? I mean it hasn't happened in real life, but maybe it has happened in your biazaro world where Natsoft does not show lap-by-lap breakdowns and JW was a lap down in 2015?

Yep I admit I got the some of my details on Jamie and the NATSOFT were wrong. Doesnt make me a liar. Fact is 888 has done it before. Deal with it. The only one here in denial is you. Because havent been caught doesn't mean it didn't happen!!! :rofl

signed, the black knight.

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by gtcapri

Yep I admit I got the some of my details on Jamie and the NATSOFT were wrong. Doesnt make me a liar. Fact is 888 has done it before. Deal with it. The only one here in denial is you. Because havent been caught doesn't mean it didn't happen!!! :rofl

signed, the black knight.

The liar bit was in direct response to you saying "Does that make you a liar or was it a mistake?" I was neither lying or mistaken as the simple undeniable fact is 888 have never done anything that has seen them charged under FIA fairness and sporting conduct, let alone 888 having accepted and pleaded guilty like DJR Team Debriss have.

Appendix B to the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct), in particular the Obligation of Fairness.

The Obligation of Fairness in Appendix B to the ISC is in the following terms:
“All FIA Licence-holders and all Participants in International Competitions must not, in any way whatsoever, infringe the principles of fairness in competition, behave in an unsportsmanlike manner or attempt to influence the result of a Competition in a way that is contrary to sporting ethics, in particular within the context of betting on the Competitions registered on the International Sporting Calendar.”

Not sure you understood the Black Knight reference. He engages a guy that doesn't want to fight, continually gets his arse handed to him, but keeps carrying on like nothing is wrong and he is winning.

But kudos for (eventually) admitting you were wrong on those couple of points. Seriously, that is a good sign.

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

The liar bit was in direct response to you saying "Does that make you a liar or was it a mistake?" I was neither lying or mistaken as the simple undeniable fact is 888 have never done anything that has seen them charged under FIA fairness and sporting conduct, let alone 888 having accepted and pleaded guilty like DJR Team Debriss have.

Not sure you understood the Black Knight reference. He engages a guy that doesn't want to fight, continually gets his arse handed to him, but keeps carrying on like nothing is wrong and he is winning.

But kudos for (eventually) admitting you were wrong on those couple of points. Seriously, that is a good sign.

No, you originally claimed I was lying about 2015. I got the details wrong, but it did happen. Re-read your earlier posts.

My whole point all along was DJR/Penske weren't the only team to have done this. Morris confirms the point with 888. The whole thing has been blown to epic proportions as though it hasn't happened before. The red/blue thing.
And haven't been charged doesn't mean they haven't never done anything wrong. They just haven't been caught. Good work by 888.

I understood the reference. Apparently your not very good applying it. But kudos for trying.

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by gtcapri

No, you originally claimed I was lying about 2015. I got the details wrong, but it did happen. Re-read your earlier posts.

My whole point all along was DJR/Penske weren't the only team to have done this. Morris confirms the point with 888. The whole thing has been blown to epic proportions as though it hasn't happened before. The red/blue thing.
And haven't been charged doesn't mean they haven't never done anything wrong. They just haven't been caught. Good work by 888.

I understood the reference. Apparently your not very good applying it. But kudos for trying.

I originally said you were mistaken when you said JW was a lap down in 2015, and I also said you were mistaken when you sad Natsoft does not have lap-by-lap stats. I then said you were lying about both of these when you doubled-down on your mis-truths. Good that you have since admitted both of those statements were wrong.

My statement you are now trying to debunk is that DJR Team Debris are the only team to have admitted and pleaded guilty to Appendix B to the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct), in particular the Obligation of Fairness. I shouldn't have said this was an undeniable fact earlier - I don't know with 100% certainty that this is true, which is why I phrased it as a question - but so far no one has listed another team that has accepted and pleaded guilty to Appendix B to the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct - Obligation of Fairness).

I don't doubt that 888 (and many others both blue, red and other) have done unsavoury things in the past - I'm asking if anyone has ever done anything so bad for them to be taken to account under fairness and sporting.

Off topic, but I'm reminded of a saying that goes along the lines of: "Never play chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, at some stage the bird is just going to knock all the pieces over, **** on the board, then strut around like it won."

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

I originally said you were mistaken when you said JW was a lap down in 2015, and I also said you were mistaken when you sad Natsoft does not have lap-by-lap stats. I then said you were lying about both of these when you doubled-down on your mis-truths. Good that you have since admitted both of those statements were wrong.

My statement you are now trying to debunk is that DJR Team Debris are the only team to have admitted and pleaded guilty to Appendix B to the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct), in particular the Obligation of Fairness. I shouldn't have said this was an undeniable fact earlier - I don't know with 100% certainty that this is true, which is why I phrased it as a question - but so far no one has listed another team that has accepted and pleaded guilty to Appendix B to the 2019 ISC (Code of Good Conduct - Obligation of Fairness).

I don't doubt that 888 (and many others both blue, red and other) have done unsavoury things in the past - I'm asking if anyone has ever done anything so bad for them to be taken to account under fairness and sporting.

Off topic, but I'm reminded of a saying that goes along the lines of: "Never play chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, at some stage the bird is just going to knock all the pieces over, **** on the board, then strut around like it won."

Spin you story much? You said I was lying. You cant even get that right. Sure you aernt in politics?? Last time I referenced as the black knight and this time your implying I'm a pigeon. Cant help yourself can you? Here's one for you, 'never argue with a fool, people may not know the difference'

Have a nice day.

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by gtcapri

Spin you story much? You said I was lying. You cant even get that right. Sure you aernt in politics?? Last time I referenced as the black knight and this time your implying I'm a pigeon. Cant help yourself can you? Here's one for you, 'never argue with a fool, people may not know the difference'

Have a nice day.

Yes, I did say you were lying, and I admit that in the post you just quoted. It was when you were lying your arse off that I said that you were lying.

You said some stuff that was wrong. I pointed out you were wrong. Probably should have ended there. You got angry and repeated your mis-truths and tried to present them again as facts. I and others reiterated that you were wrong (again), and that was when I said "Don't crack the sads when your blatant lies don't pass the slightest fact check..." (or something close to that). You now admit that what you twice stated to be facts were not true.

I'm now aware that you get triggered when called a liar, so from now on when you try to present as facts what is known to be bullshit I will now use 'safe' words like mistaken, wrong, inaccurate, incorrect, false, misinfored, misguided etc...but won't call you a liar when you are lying.

We good to get back on the topic of DJR Team Debris admitting their actions were unsporting and unfair? You and I both put our handbags down now?

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Jamolad

We good to get back on the topic of DJR Team Debris admitting their actions were unsporting and unfair?

If you got done high range drink driving and we're offered a 2 point loss of demerit points and a $50 fine, would you admit guilt? Or would you fight it?

Penske couldn't "plead guilty" quick enough!

[Jamolad]

Originally Posted by Compromised

If you got done high range drink driving and we're offered a 2 point loss of demerit points and a $50 fine, would you admit guilt? Or would you fight it?

Penske couldn't "plead guilty" quick enough!

Wait, what? Really?

So in your analogy, DJR Team Debriss were caught high-range DUI, the penalty on offer was far less severe than what they should have received for high-range, so they admitted all fault and pleaded guilty at the earliest opportunity.

So what you are saying is DJR Team Debriss pleaded guilty as they knew their unconscionable actions should have seen them receive a much much harsher penalty than what has been applied here. They could not plead guilty quick enough as they knew they were getting off lightly (they knew they deserved much harsher penalties)? Interesting take on things.

I think it is more a case of, if you were caught high-range DUI, and you knew you were guilty of the offence and could not defend it, would you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity in hope of a lesser penalty rather than risk more severe punishment by wasting everyone's time trying to defend the indefensible?