[WEC] Porsche GTP / Hypercar: factory and customer

[sssssssss]

"I think it’s the first time we go with this new feeling to a race weekend, where we are not the favorites from speed. Last years we were always the favorites", says jani.

well, last year, the toyota looked marginally faster than the porsche, to me. in 2015, the audis were quite a bit quicker than the porsche in race pace... until the night came. also, in 2014, both the toyota and the audi were quicker than the porsche in race pace. of course, they were never too far behind, but i'd also say they were never the very quickest in race setup. also, looking back at their earlier victories, from 1998 back, they also never seemed to have the best race laps. what they always had was enough reliability and consistency to come out first at the end of the race (except for 2014).

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by sssssssss

well, last year, the toyota looked marginally faster than the porsche, to me. in 2015, the audis were quite a bit quicker than the porsche in race pace... until the night came.

Well it may have looked like it you, but that was not actually the case. If you look at the data you will find that although the Porsche did not in fact do the fastest race lap, they had the fastest ideal race lap.
Furthermore, if you analyse the laps 3:30.0 and below (thus eliminating yellow flags , etc) you will find that both Porsche's had the fastest average times.

Anyway, what has passed has passed. This year they are up the creek without a paddle. They seemingly don't have the speed weapon. It will be interesting to see how they mange this hindrance.
As a Porsche fan boy, I'm now really keen to see how they react to this next year. I look forward to a 919 Gen III

[chernaudi]

Motorsport Akutell (however it's spelled) are now also reporting rumors that Porsche may be leaving the WEC soon.

[Melcor]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Motorsport Akutell (however it's spelled) are now also reporting rumors that Porsche may be leaving the WEC soon.

I thought that they are commited to the program till the end of 2018,or that was atleast the official statement from Porsche.Also i remember that they have gentelmen agreement with Toyota to stay with the same chasis untill the end of this rule set or in other words the end of 2019.

[chernaudi]

Audi Sport were supposed to be around until at least 2017. Such agreements aren't worth the paper they're printed on if the parent company decides to make a change.

[bobec]

Oh dear. Will Toyota be racing itself from next year on? Can we have Toyota win LM while there is still competition (this weekend) and end this turbulent LMP1 era. Too much non-track related drama!

Btw, those rumors of Porsche leaving come at a time when there are new rumors of Audi considering a move to F1.

[chernaudi]

Granted, the Porsche leaving the WEC soon should be lumped in with the Audi to F1 rumors that have been going on for nearly 20 years: I'll believe it when I see it and the fat lady hasn't sung yet. But things aren't encouraging, namely with Porsche's budget being so much larger than Toyota's (even if Toyota are spending $100 million, Porsche are way above that in terms of LMP1 spending) and risking getting defeated by them at LM, and politics going at at VAG and probably between VAG and the ACO.

The ACO have been at risk for such a trail off with the ERS incentive upping budgets and the rules originally being good for three years, meaning that teams had little time to get things right. Yeah, the ACO have basically declared rules stability until 2020, but I'd argue it was too little, too late. Not to mention ROI issues on a dollar per exposure basis compared to the likes of NASCAR or F1.

Just like the IMSA GTP/Group C collapse of 25 years ago, and the original GT1 collapse of almost 20 years ago (right at the start of the Audi Sport era), the teams and the sanctioning body have priced themselves almost out of commission, and only a major rules shake up will stop the bleeding.

[TzeiTzei]

Not that surprising. They came back, won LM a couple of times and now they're racing just Toyota. There is not much value left in their LMP1 program in my opinion.

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Motorsport Akutell (however it's spelled) are now also reporting rumors that Porsche may be leaving the WEC soon.

No they are not.

[chernaudi]

Apparently they did, or else people wouldn't comment on it on a rival forum. Not to mention that Hindy from Midweek Motorsport/Radio Le Mans has been making not too subtle hints off and on for a while, including this weekend apparently, that it's a possibility. And that's not mentioning Dagys' thus far cryptic tweet of bad news coming this week, though there's been so far no clarification on what he meant or what this alleged "news" is.

I can't think of any worse news for the ACO right now than another LMP1 manufacturer giving up the ghost on their program, and it seems that Porsche might be more likely to bail out than Toyota.

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Apparently they did

Provide the link.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

Provide the link.

It's a print magazine, ffs....

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

It's a print magazine, ffs....

Then provide a picture of the article in question. It's not that hard.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

Then provide a picture of the article in question. It's not that hard.

Apparently understanding the world exists whether you want to or not is hard to understand

[Akrapovic]

I'll just hop on a plane to Germany, it's not that hard right?

Either way there is a rumour about porsche leaving. We've been hearing it for a while. Its whether or not it's true or not.

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Apparently understanding the world exists whether you want to or not is hard to understand

The irony is entirely at your expense. Does anyone have any proof of this article existing yes or no?

I could just as well claim I have seen the next issue of some German magazine where BMW announce their entry into LMP1 from 2020. Does that make it 'real'?

[deggis]

I have no problem believing the paper article exists, but context and exact content and wording in it could make a big difference.

The user who referenced it on Autosport forums has 4000 posts, but he didn't go into specifics and did not directly say he had seen the article.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

The irony is entirely at your expense. Does anyone have any proof of this article existing yes or no?

I could just as well claim I have seen the next issue of some German magazine where BMW announce their entry into LMP1 from 2020. Does that make it 'real'?

I'd probably believe that you'd seen the article, yeah. I have no problem with that given I certainly don't know otherwise.

[Adam43]

Asking for a link or reference is perfectly acceptable as is highlighting that it isn't available for a valid reason. Getting all aggressive over such a small thing isn't acceptable. We're all part of the same community here. Time to move on if it bothers you so much..

[chernaudi]

Real or imagined, the Porsche pull out rumors have been around since at least when Audi left, Audi and Porsche are both parts of Volkswagen Group, and such rumors IMO highlight how unstable LMP1 has been since 2014. Having three players in there was fine, but all it could take is one of them getting tired of the rules or deciding to leave to do something else to upset the apple cart.

One team leaving is bad enough, but survivable in the short term for the WEC. Le Mans can take care of itself, as we've seen though the years, but what about a full season championship should another team leave LMP1? How will the ACO respond?

At this stage, in my opinion, for the health of LMP1 in the short term (until 2020), just the mere rumor that Porsche or Toyota might leave, especially with no one like Toyota able to quickly fill the void like they did when Peugeot left, is cause for concern.

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'd probably believe that you'd seen the article, yeah. I have no problem with that given I certainly don't know otherwise.

Never heard of 'don't believe everything you read on the internet'?

When someone who ad nauseam keeps regurgitating his own made up conspiracy theory claims something based on a random post on another forum there is absolutely zero reason to take that seriously whatsoever.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Scorchess

Never heard of 'don't believe everything you read on the internet'?

When someone who ad nauseam keeps regurgitating his own made up conspiracy theory claims something based on a random post on another forum there is absolutely zero reason to take that seriously whatsoever.

Enough now. The rumours are definitely doing the rounds here in Le Mans, but that may be all they are. Adam has clearly set out the score, so let's not argue about what is, may be or isn't true as none of us actually know.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Real or imagined, the Porsche pull out rumors have been around since at least when Audi left, Audi and Porsche are both parts of Volkswagen Group, and such rumors IMO highlight how unstable LMP1 has been since 2014. Having three players in there was fine, but all it could take is one of them getting tired of the rules or deciding to leave to do something else to upset the apple cart.

One team leaving is bad enough, but survivable in the short term for the WEC. Le Mans can take care of itself, as we've seen though the years, but what about a full season championship should another team leave LMP1? How will the ACO respond?

At this stage, in my opinion, for the health of LMP1 in the short term (until 2020), just the mere rumor that Porsche or Toyota might leave, especially with no one like Toyota able to quickly fill the void like they did when Peugeot left, is cause for concern.

How long was the Porsche project meant to be? Spyderman probably knows off the top of his head, but I seem to recall 4 or something? We're currently in year 4. Is it just a case of this is as long as the project was meant to run?

Unfortunately it's not like the old days when the top tier prototypes could be sold as customer cars. Does that instantly put a time limit on any manufacturer involvement? Seems that unless it becomes cheaper to produce the cars, it's always going to go this way.

[Scorchess]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Enough now. The rumours are definitely doing the rounds here in Le Mans, but that may be all they are. Adam has clearly set out the score, so let's not argue about what is, may be or isn't true as none of us actually know.

Exactly my point. Next time someone claims to know something without backing it up I hope they get the same response.

[Aysedasi]

Maybe. I can assure you though you will get a response if you don't move on. This is a discussion forum, if we could only post positively proven fact, we'd be lucky to get one post a day. Life is full of conjecture, that's how it is. Now it really is time to move on.....