Sportscar/GT (and Le Mans) Rumours and Repetition

[Rodger Davies]

Well, visiting the continent to watch motorsport has been fun! I just hope it continues to be streamed online...

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by Chiana

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...to-avoid--todt
When asked if he was keen to avoid a similar schedule problem in the future, Todt said: "It's kind of mission impossible."

Translation of the article: The gentlemans agreement between FIA and the ACO is never coming back and FIA will do absolutely nothing to prevent any clashes in the future either.

Love how it wasn't "impossible" between 2012-2015... and there are some really neat detailed "explanations" in the article. You've got to wonder how he was able to clear the customs when flying back to France from Baku, you know with the gigantic cash bags as souvenirs from Bernie in his luggage.

Impossible, hmm, really?? That's just a cop out. If there's a will, and there should be, then there is a way.
Jean Todt once again showing great leadership......

Let's face it; last years win featuring Hulkenburg, and the subsequent reporting of "F1 driver wins Le Mans.." really annoyed Bernie. It was not going to happen again.
And look at the Monday morning papers; motorsport dominated by the Baku F1, with miniscule reports on Le Mans - Bernie gets what he wanted.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

Impossible, hmm, really?? That's just a cop out. If there's a will, and there should be, then there is a way.
Jean Todt once again showing great leadership......

Let's face it; last years win featuring Hulkenburg, and the subsequent reporting of "F1 driver wins Le Mans.." really annoyed Bernie. It was not going to happen again.
And look at the Monday morning papers; motorsport dominated by the Baku F1, with miniscule reports on Le Mans - Bernie gets what he wanted.

Its sad really, I honestly tought Todt would be a better leader then the many questionable ones before him. Oh well, looks like that Bernie dude will live like forever anyway....

[deggis]

Technically FIA has the final say on the calendars, but it is clear the pecking order is FOM > FIA.

Todt doesn't seem interested even in fixing F1, so at least there's that. He is more interested in some PR road car safety projects.

[wolfhound]

If you can read the article attached it might give you an insight as to why there are clashes between F1 and Le Mans.

http://classicplus.autosport.com/pre...494.1448115426

Basically it says that LeMans is the only motorsport event that Bernie cannot control, as it threatens his domain and pops every year in June to try to capture the motorsport headlines. He then manages things so that F1 dominates in the media.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

If you can read the article attached it might give you an insight as to why there are clashes between F1 and Le Mans.

http://classicplus.autosport.com/pre...494.1448115426

Basically it says that LeMans is the only motorsport event that Bernie cannot control, as it threatens his domain and pops every year in June to try to capture the motorsport headlines. He then manages things so that F1 dominates in the media.

To Bernie, Le Mans is the proverbial turd that won't flush down; worse, it vexatiously and disobligingly bobs back up every June, a potential resource thief outside his sphere of control. ...

[Deleted]

Remember it's not only this mess that seems to cause heat between the ACO and FIA, Beaumesnil in particular has had very vocal comments on who makes rules etc...

Honestly, I do hope the relationship with the FIA blows up and falls apart completely, then we can trade off WEC back to something better and less restricted like ILMC 1.5. AND then if relations to IMSA weakens further (if possible) there can be possibilities on that front too.

[TF110]

Not gonna happen.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Rodger Davies

Well, visiting the continent to watch motorsport has been fun! I just hope it continues to be streamed online...

I'm sorry the "Britain for the Brits", "Brits first".... xenophobic kind of people in the UK got you all in this situation..... Ladies and Gentlemen, get your passports ready to visit LM....

The Baku effect was very sensible in the UK and Germany(in the US, it had even a positive effect as they don't care about soccer/football and F1). Bernie got what he wanted and wounded LM

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

Oh well, looks like that Bernie dude will live like forever anyway....

That's competition for you. The next, after Bernie, likely will be much more ruthless

F1 is the big shark and if the niche LM tries to grow more than it's average, then the shark will naturally adopt it's predator role.

[chernaudi]

I'm starting to actively wish this upon certain individuals in the world today, and the list is growing:



Some people, including in the world of motorsports, need a last ride for their own good. And they should know when to put up and shut up, too.

[TF110]

Autosport.com has had more LM related articles than Baku in the past couple weeks. Mostly post-LM revolving around the Toyota/Porsche finish and what the issues were for Toyota's engine.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Artur

I'm sorry the "Britain for the Brits", "Brits first".... xenophobic kind of people in the UK got you all in this situation..... Ladies and Gentlemen, get your passports ready to visit LM....

The Baku effect was very sensible in the UK and Germany(in the US, it had even a positive effect as they don't care about soccer/football and F1). Bernie got what he wanted and wounded LM


That's competition for you. The next, after Bernie, likely will be much more ruthless

F1 is the big shark and if the niche LM tries to grow more than it's average, then the shark will naturally adopt it's predator role.

Just FYI, you already needed a passport to visit Le Mans. I never went by tunnel but I went by ferry 8 times and every time the entire car had the passport checked on both entry and exit of France. So no change there.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not gonna happen.

Just like ALMS and Grand-Am were always gonna stay separated, ELMS was never gonna survive after the fiasco of 2012, and the 2017 LMP2 regulations we're just gonna be light evolution of the current regs? Things can change out of a blue.

[Artur]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Just FYI, you already needed a passport to visit Le Mans. I never went by tunnel but I went by ferry 8 times and every time the entire car had the passport checked on both entry and exit of France. So no change there.

thanks for the info. I always though Europeans, within the EU, had free circulation between their countries

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Artur

thanks for the info. I always though Europeans, within the EU, had free circulation between their countries

There is an agreement in a lot of EU countries for free movement but Britain opted it out of it.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Artur

thanks for the info. I always though Europeans, within the EU, had free circulation between their countries

This applies to most European countries but not as simple as it sounds. There is free movement of people throughout EU countries, but the lack of borders is a separate issue called the Schengen Agreement. Countries in that agreement do not have border controls, but the UK is not part of this agreement. The U.K. Currently has free movement of people in and out, but with border control. The proposed replacement system (but it's way way too early to know how it'll go), was a system based on the Australian way of doing things.

Whether this is a good thing or not is of course completely subjective. But either way, we currently have border control. It's not really a big deal. Calais has always been easy to get through in my experience. America is a much more stressful control, but the UK has always been easy enough.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Just like ALMS and Grand-Am were always gonna stay separated, ELMS was never gonna survive after the fiasco of 2012, and the 2017 LMP2 regulations we're just gonna be light evolution of the current regs? Things can change out of a blue.

You honestly believe the ACO will drop the FIA completely and they'll 'divorce'? Or even if that happens, you think somehow the cars and rules will be less restrictive?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

You honestly believe the ACO will drop the FIA completely and they'll 'divorce'? Or even if that happens, you think somehow the cars and rules will be less restrictive?

Anyhow, it's gotta be no wonder so MUCH changed between 2011 ILMC and 2012 WEC, and not all of that can be directly associated with it just being world championship now all of a sudden. I can see immediately change of philosophy in classes, regs and attitude that never was there before. And we know of the FIA "requirements" for certain things.

IF the "separation" happened sometime in the future, and I hope it will, I think there could be some "attitude" changes around too. Not overwhelmingly massive, I mean the ELMS and ASLMS as direct domains of ACO-only do indirectly tell you how things are handled today, but still some.

[chernaudi]

Problem is that the ACO write most of the sporting regs and almost all the technical regs for the WEC. Yes, the FIA does handle logistics and promotion and other similar things, including giving their "blessing" for the WEC to be considered a World Championship.

But the WEC is by and large the ACO's baby, and we have to remember that since 2009 there's been a large influx of people into the ACO from the FIA or from the FFSA who've been sympathetic to the FIA. So I have no doubt that things would be the way they are today irrespective of the FIA's involvement with the series.

[Deleted]

Beaumesnil said last fall:

AC: Why did the FIA put an absolute limit on the LMP1 car?
VB: Please, don’t say FIA. Keep in mind that the rules are made by the FIA and the ACO. I don’t understand why people say the FIA has decided. The FIA doesn’t decide anything. The FIA and ACO are running working groups, so it is not the FIA that decides. It has to be very clear.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Beaumesnil said last fall:

AC: Why did the FIA put an absolute limit on the LMP1 car?
VB: Please, don’t say FIA. Keep in mind that the rules are made by the FIA and the ACO. I don’t understand why people say the FIA has decided. The FIA doesn’t decide anything. The FIA and ACO are running working groups, so it is not the FIA that decides. It has to be very clear.

Didn't that statement just go against your argument? "Please don't say FIA"...

[chernaudi]

Either Vince is trying to cover the FIA's tookus or he inadvertently showed how bad the ACO have become with their own regs. Even if the FIA insist on certain things, the ACO still have primary responsibility over the technical regs and sporting regs.

[Artur]

Such a poor decision will be to go to Indy's rubbish roval, after CotA drops out, as RA showed, with the Indycar race, that it would be the ideal venue to provide an awesome race and probably lure non-WEC fans to follow the event as RA is a kind of one off circuits for today's standards. At least I know a few "F1 fans", who generally don't watch WEC, that would maybe get interested in watching the 6 h of Road America, just for the sake of seeing a race on an old-school track.

It can't be all just about more money to, and what suits, the FIA/ACO people, the manufacturers should strongly push for better fan-friendly venues(more viewers is obviously better for their brands). USA could have two WEC events: 6h(or some other better duration) of RA and merge with the 12h of Sebring again.

[deggis]

As much as Neveu & co. want their VIP rooms the manufacturer teams probably want actual pit garages and not just the concrete pit wall arrangement, so I can't see RA in its current state happening as long as there is the possibility of Indy or Montreal.

Stop dreaming about 12h Sebring for as long as it is in IMSA's calendar.

[TF110]

Regarding Road America and Indycar, the pole time was 1:42.2 for the race. Back in 2008's ALMS race the Audi R10's pole time was a 1:46.9. I bet today's lmp1's would be just as fast as Indycar is, perhaps faster.