USCC (leave your axe outside)

[MagVanisher]

Regarding actual manufacturers making LMP2 cars, it'll take a good effort on convincing the likes of Ford, Toyota, and Chevrolet to make a proper prototype.

If they did, those small chassis makers like Riley, OAK, and Oreca will be push out of the series.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Regarding actual manufacturers making LMP2 cars, it'll take a good effort on convincing the likes of Ford, Toyota, and Chevrolet to make a proper prototype.

If they did, those small chassis makers like Riley, OAK, and Oreca will be push out of the series.

Maybe in North America but elsewhere the Oaks and alike would still sell as ACO would not allow those manufacturer cars to run in their series. Or even if they would, they'd get even harsher treatments as RS Spyders. If Ford LMP2 was run by "privateer team" like Ganassi Racing or Chevrolet LMP2 by Penske it'd be enough for ACO to call it camourflaged attempt at factory effort

Not that this is gonna happen, they're just gonna stick with the cheap-ass bodyworks on top of external chassis

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Regarding actual manufacturers making LMP2 cars, it'll take a good effort on convincing the likes of Ford, Toyota, and Chevrolet to make a proper prototype.

If they did, those small chassis makers like Riley, OAK, and Oreca will be push out of the series.

Who's to say that the manufacturers wouldn't outsource chassis development to those specialist firms? Happens in GTE as well, with Riley being in charge of the Viper program, etc.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Who's to say that the manufacturers wouldn't outsource chassis development to those specialist firms? Happens in GTE as well, with Riley being in charge of the Viper program, etc.

Exactly, would a Coyote with a Chevy motor not be just as independent as an Oak with a Nissan? Or an Hpd with a Honda motor?

[Maelochs]

My memory is shockingly poor, but wasn't the GTP Corvette a Lola chassis massaged by Pratt and Miller? You know, that GTP Corvette so many hold up as the benchmark of U.S. factory GTP efforts? And who built the Cadillac chassis? I think two different manufacturers (yes I could Google it and I will later.)

As far as I know, the P1 Audis until last year were designed in-house and built by Dallara, and then another Italian company.

If U.S. manufacturers want to put their names on others' chassis and call them their own ... so long as they provide the motor and the money, that is pretty much in keeping with standard practice.

Not saying I wouldn't Prefer to see Ford and Chevy at least doing their own designs ... but then, Chevy did do the design work (with NASCAR and the chassis makers) for the execrable "Corvette" DP shell.

I see no reason why P-class cannot have full factory involvement, and I think that is what many would prefer—a formula which allowed privateers to race full factory cars on about level ground, where factory's could enter a "P2 Corvette" or a "P2 Mustang" (remember the GTP Ford "Probe"?) and race against Oak (Morgan, Ligier,) Zytek (Caterham,) and Oreca, Lola-Mazda, HPD coupes, Strakka-Dome, and whatever else was out there.

The U.S. factories could buy and badge just like Morgan/Ligier/Caterham—I don't care if the "Corvette" is an Onroak, a Dallara, an Oreca, or a Coyote, so long as it is a serious, modern-tech prototype, not a dino-car which is essentially a mid-engined NASCAR truck chassis.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by joeb

Exactly, would a Coyote with a Chevy motor not be just as independent as an Oak with a Nissan? Or an Hpd with a Honda motor?

It is and it makes for a great P2 - but won't be enough to carry the show unfortunately. We need P1 (light) aka P2+ for that matter.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

My memory is shockingly poor, but wasn't the GTP Corvette a Lola chassis massaged by Pratt and Miller? You know, that GTP Corvette so many hold up as the benchmark of U.S. factory GTP efforts? And who built the Cadillac chassis? I think two different manufacturers (yes I could Google it and I will later.)

As far as I know, the P1 Audis until last year were designed in-house and built by Dallara, and then another Italian company.

If U.S. manufacturers want to put their names on others' chassis and call them their own ... so long as they provide the motor and the money, that is pretty much in keeping with standard practice.

Not saying I wouldn't Prefer to see Ford and Chevy at least doing their own designs ... but then, Chevy did do the design work (with NASCAR and the chassis makers) for the execrable "Corvette" DP shell.

I see no reason why P-class cannot have full factory involvement, and I think that is what many would prefer—a formula which allowed privateers to race full factory cars on about level ground, where factory's could enter a "P2 Corvette" or a "P2 Mustang" (remember the GTP Ford "Probe"?) and race against Oak (Morgan, Ligier,) Zytek (Caterham,) and Oreca, Lola-Mazda, HPD coupes, Strakka-Dome, and whatever else was out there.

The U.S. factories could buy and badge just like Morgan/Ligier/Caterham—I don't care if the "Corvette" is an Onroak, a Dallara, an Oreca, or a Coyote, so long as it is a serious, modern-tech prototype, not a dino-car which is essentially a mid-engined NASCAR truck chassis.

Riley built the soft as Swiss cheese Caddilacs.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

It is and it makes for a great P2 - but won't be enough to carry the show unfortunately. We need P1 (light) aka P2+ for that matter.

In my mind, P1L and P2+ are two completely different concepts, with the former allowing for continuous development, while the other is just a more powerful version of the current P2 homologation formula. So which one would you like?

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

In my mind, P1L and P2+ are two completely different concepts, with the former allowing for continuous development, while the other is just a more powerful version of the current P2 homologation formula. So which one would you like?

Looks like IMSA have already made their pick don't you think?

[David Land]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

It is and it makes for a great P2 - but won't be enough to carry the show unfortunately.

Why not? P2 racing with pro drivers is just as good as P1 racing, probably better honestly.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by David Land

Why not? P2 racing with pro drivers is just as good as P1 racing, probably better honestly.

Current P2s are simply too slow.

[Deleted]

And in their cost cap glory quite unspectacular for headline class. At least the open tops.

Not that their tubeframe dino friends are any better in that aspect.

[David Land]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Current P2s are simply too slow.

Frankly, P1 (as much as I love it), is simply not an option for this series.

There is no way there will be any more money flowing into this series between now and 2017, there will be less. No new fans, no new sponsors, no new teams, certainly no new manufacturers.

We are probably going to be down to 6-7 P teams next year, that number will only drop between now and 2017. You can't expect struggling teams in a struggling series to afford P1 cars.

[Danathar]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

The current version of LMP2 is not a saleable concept.

Who said anything about the current version.

I'm talking about whatever P2 we get in 2017 onwards.

[FLGTFAN]

Looking forward to a new P2 in 2017 is just not exciting to me. I love the protos, by I am absolutely tired of watching the current crop in TUSC. 2017?!?!

I wish the brains at IMSA/ACO would erase P2 and promote GTE to excite the fans (and therefore manufacturers). Stop mandating that GT2 must run slower than P2 and (worse) LMPC.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by David Land

Frankly, P1 (as much as I love it), is simply not an option for this series.

There is no way there will be any more money flowing into this series between now and 2017, there will be less. No new fans, no new sponsors, no new teams, certainly no new manufacturers.

We are probably going to be down to 6-7 P teams next year, that number will only drop between now and 2017. You can't expect struggling teams in a struggling series to afford P1 cars.

P1-L might not be, P2+ has a better chance. Different body kits won't do it either, the cars need bigger engines and better tires in order to go much faster. I don't care if IMSA calls those cars DPs, it's all about the speed and up-to-date technology.

Anyway, it's probably all gonna be too little and too late to save American's premier sportscar series...

[ThatGuy]

I thought LMP1 and LMP2 run the same or similar tire dimensions this season?

[chernaudi]

LMP1 run the same maximum rim size as LMP2 does, which in theory is 14x18.

However, in truth the rim width is usually quite a bit smaller than the max allowed; 16x18 used to be the max on LMP1 cars, but most teams going back to the LMP900 days ran 13.5x18 up front and 14.5X18 at the rear.

The exceptions were the Panoz LMP1 roadster (15x18 rear), Audi R10 (usually 13x18 front), and the "wide tire" LMP1s of the past few years. Most ran 14.5x18 on all four corners, though all iterations of the 2011-2013 Audi R18 ran 14.75x18 wheels up front.

This year, all current reg LMP1s are running 13x18 wheels on all four corners (reducing the wheel/tire width is largely how the ACO made the new LMP1s most of 4 inches narrower than the older cars). LMP2 have the same max wheel size limit, but most run 12.5x18 front and 13x18 rear. Daytona Prototypes run the same wheel sizes as LMP2 cars.

[Christian Mogami]

BOP changes for COTA!

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Christian Mogami

BOP changes for COTA!

Rather meaningful ones at that!

Really surprised that the DP's are losing nearly two gallons of fuel. Might improve the race balancing significantly.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

LMP1 run the same maximum rim size as LMP2 does, which in theory is 14x18.

However, in truth the rim width is usually quite a bit smaller than the max allowed; 16x18 used to be the max on LMP1 cars, but most teams going back to the LMP900 days ran 13.5x18 up front and 14.5X18 at the rear.

The exceptions were the Panoz LMP1 roadster (15x18 rear), Audi R10 (usually 13x18 front), and the "wide tire" LMP1s of the past few years. Most ran 14.5x18 on all four corners, though all iterations of the 2011-2013 Audi R18 ran 14.75x18 wheels up front.

This year, all current reg LMP1s are running 13x18 wheels on all four corners (reducing the wheel/tire width is largely how the ACO made the new LMP1s most of 4 inches narrower than the older cars). LMP2 have the same max wheel size limit, but most run 12.5x18 front and 13x18 rear. Daytona Prototypes run the same wheel sizes as LMP2 cars.

Can I just say...I've never looked at the DP wheel regs before this post.

Here's what it reads.

6-1 Measurements - All wheels must be 18-inch diameter and permanently marked on the wheel centers with the car number.
6-1.1 Complete wheel/tire measured at the hub level:
Maximum width is 14”
Maximum diameter is 28”
6-1.2 Wheel offset is free.
6-1.3 Material: Aluminum cast or forged only
6-1.4 Wheels must be 1, 2 or 3-piece design.
6-1.5 Single wheel minimum weight (tire removed):
Front – 22.5 lbs. or 10.21 kg
Rear – 23.5 lbs. or 10.66 kg

28" max. diameter???? It's obviously a typo...or is it. A 10" sidewall would be hilarious.

[seanyb505]

28 Diameter means 5" sidewall. Top and bottom sidewall. 28" radius would be humorous.

[BullMan]

Bad news! Starworks is shelving the incredible Honda DP until at least next year! Oh the agony!

http://racer.com/imsa/item/108474-im...-focus-to-2015

That pointless machine won't be at PLM. I guess we'll see it have mechanical trouble and fail at Daytona just because Baron can find someone to drive it, and then we'll never see it again.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

28 Diameter means 5" sidewall. Top and bottom sidewall. 28" radius would be humorous.

Yes. That's what I said...

Total derp moment....

[chernaudi]

And the thing is that Audi usually ran 52 lap stints around Le Mans with basically LMP2 spec tires with no performance drop off and had similar performance to the much wider tires from last year.

That shows the difference between Michelin making tires to suit each team/car and promote strategy vs Conti/Hooiser being asked to build their tires down to a price and be like NASCAR's Goodyear tires to force 4 tire stops as often as possible.