MSNZ & TMC - 'Wheels start to come off'

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Club racer

I see that NZV8s are offering free entry to all runners.

However many there are nor not, I wonder who is paying for those entries? Unless inidcated otherwise I would say it is safe to assume that's another chunk of my license payers money down the tubes. Nice.

My understanding is that the track owners/clubs are being asked to cover the free entries to the NZV8 class on the basis that they will pick up the loss of income from gate takings.
The problem is that the offering by NZV8 and the other Tier 1 grids are not that attractive and the track owners do not believe they will generate sufficient gate takings to cover the entry fee loss and other costs of putting on the meeting. That is one of the reasons I understand some of the tracks have not yet committed to the Tier 1 calendar.

[Icarus_nz]

Originally Posted by Mr Revhead

As I said it was a while ago. And despite what you think or say, the specific reason given was tvnz wanted too much. Maybe
hthe production was done by tvnz then, I don't know.

Anyway, single seaters have never been tv or crowd favourites in nz

Not for a moment doubting the validity of your statement or source.
TRS said TVNZ wanted 'too much' which equates to more than they wanted, or had to pay.

On the other hand, the TVNZ price would have been the cost of gathering, producing and showing the footage (plus a profit one presumes)

As commercial entities, TRS was not prepared to pay said amount and didn't, TVNZ was not prepared to sell their services at a loss and didn't.

End of story

TV is expensive. Someone has to pay.
Ignore for a moment the history, the summer series lacks much to promote in terms of events, entries, support classes, dates and so on. Very very hard to do any sort of deal on that basis

At premier level, until the cars roll out of pit lane, its business.

[Mr Revhead]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

TRS said TVNZ wanted 'too much' which equates to more than they wanted, or had to pay.

Yeah pretty much depends what side of the fence your looking at it doesn't it.


Anyway, point is there isn't enough $$ or the will around TRS for them to pay for a top spot on broadcasting

[harcey]

Originally Posted by Icarus_nz

Not for a moment doubting the validity of your statement or source.
TRS said TVNZ wanted 'too much' which equates to more than they wanted, or had to pay.

On the other hand, the TVNZ price would have been the cost of gathering, producing and showing the footage (plus a profit one presumes)

As commercial entities, TRS was not prepared to pay said amount and didn't, TVNZ was not prepared to sell their services at a loss and didn't.

End of story

TV is expensive. Someone has to pay.
Ignore for a moment the history, the summer series lacks much to promote in terms of events, entries, support classes, dates and so on. Very very hard to do any sort of deal on that basis

At premier level, until the cars roll out of pit lane, its business.

i wouldn't think for a minute that TRS would be overly concerned about TV coverage...parent company has ways of making news anyway...the vast majority of drivers are internationals here to improve their craft (not many even have sponsors names on cars)...the at track corporates will still enjoy their racing and there will be no complaints from drivers about lack of coverage, they just wanna win....the teams will be happy because they will make a bit of cash from being full of cars... and any spectators who bother to go will be treated to some ferocious racing....
and a few support classes as well including those new NZv8 things and one or two old nzv8 things for nostalgia....

[Racer Mike]

Harcey, if TRS isnt concerned about TV then the summer series is dead from a commercial point of view, it will be a club day with some international single seater drivers and 4-5 V8's. MSNZ need TRS to want TV as they wouldnt be able to afford to do it themselves.

Roger, it sounds like MSNZ and Mr Short might be throwing their weight around again trying to squeeze money from other organisations that know there will be no financial return. Can you see a normal business run by normal business people taking up an offer like this when they know they wont get their money back.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

Can you see a normal business run by normal business people taking up an offer like this when they know they wont get their money back.

So what's the offer, pray tell?

[CDM]

Originally Posted by RogerH

My understanding is that the track owners/clubs are being asked to cover the free entries to the NZV8 class on the basis that they will pick up the loss of income from gate takings.

My understanding is that in the past the Clubs have never received any of the entry fees from the NZ championship classes. Those entry fees went to TMC and the actual clubs only got the entry fees from the one or two support classes they ran.

Obviously that may well be different now that MNZ have taken over, as i assume a fresh deal has been reached, but surely none of the Clubs were green enough to bank on a high number of NZV8 entry fees to cover their event costs...

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by CDM

My understanding is that in the past the Clubs have never received any of the entry fees from the NZ championship classes. Those entry fees went to TMC and the actual clubs only got the entry fees from the one or two support classes they ran.

Obviously that may well be different now that MNZ have taken over, as i assume a fresh deal has been reached, but surely none of the Clubs were green enough to bank on a high number of NZV8 entry fees to cover their event costs...

I think the issue is one of gate takings. MSNZ (represented by Mr Short) are trying to persuade circuit owners/clubs to assume the risk of running the Tier 1 meetings with the inherent cost structures on the basis that the cost of putting on the event will be more than compensated by gate takings.
There is clearly a differing of opinion on what these gate takings will be - MSNZ/Short are obviously more bullish on the Tier 1 offering while some of the circuits/clubs do not see the Tier 1 package generating sufficient interest to create enough gate takings to make the event financially viable.
There is high demand for track bookings and I would think that a circuit would rather put on a "tried and true" club type meeting where they know they will make a dollar rather than face a loss putting on a meeting just because it is Tier 1.

[Racer Mike]

They know it wont pay but you can guess they are telling the circuts it will. It would be like throwing your mate or a customer under a bus.

Sounds all too fimiliar, bit like a company called TMC, MPL who are in the crapper for 3-400k......

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Racer Mike

Sounds all too fimiliar, bit like a company called TMC, MPL who are in the crapper for 3-400k......

You mean they'll come up short (again)!

[Bill Brown]

It's all fairly simple for a circuit owning club really.

Look at the event proposal - do a budget.

If it stacks up do it. If it doesnt re-negotiate or walk away.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Bill Brown

It's all fairly simple for a circuit owning club really.

Look at the event proposal - do a budget.

If it stacks up do it. If it doesnt re-negotiate or walk away.

It will be interesting to see how many (if any) walk away. Do you think they would believe the crowd estimates given by Short and co. or would they do their own figures?

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

It will be interesting to see how many (if any) walk away. Do you think they would believe the crowd estimates given by Short and co. or would they do their own figures?

use your own figures and judgement

Remember though any promotion has some risk element.

[Brian Budd]

I note with interest the comments on this forum regarding the running of MotorSport New Zealand's Championships this summer, which on the whole are based on a lack of knowledge and a great deal of speculation.

Bill Brown is correct with his statement that if Clubs/Circuits have issues around the financial viability of the events they re-negotiate or walk away.

No individual or organisation is forcing Clubs and/or Circuits to get involved. All negotiations have been carried out against good business practice with all the facts on the table.

If you want to know the real facts, please contact me. Lets stop the innuendo and speculation. I suspect that the facts will not be half as exciting as the bull**** currently appearing on this forum.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Brian Budd

If you want to know the real facts, please contact me. Lets stop the innuendo and speculation. I suspect that the facts will not be half as exciting as the bull**** currently appearing on this forum.

Why not just clarify for everyone here... Sorry, don't understand the "I can tell you, but only in private".

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by Brian Budd

I note with interest the comments on this forum regarding the running of MotorSport New Zealand's Championships this summer, which on the whole are based on a lack of knowledge and a great deal of speculation.

Bill Brown is correct with his statement that if Clubs/Circuits have issues around the financial viability of the events they re-negotiate or walk away.

No individual or organisation is forcing Clubs and/or Circuits to get involved. All negotiations have been carried out against good business practice with all the facts on the table.

If you want to know the real facts, please contact me. Lets stop the innuendo and speculation. I suspect that the facts will not be half as exciting as the bull**** currently appearing on this forum.

Welcome to the forum Brian - good to see someone from MSNZ posting here after the MSNZ blog has unfortunately seemed to have gone silent.
I'm a little bemused with the claims of innuendo, speculation and bull****. While such things do feature from time to time, surely not everything on this forum falls into these categories. For example, with the subject issue of the 2012/13 Tier 1 calendar are the following statements from recent postings bull****?
- MSNZ are organising the Tier series and expect the circuits/clubs to take the financial risk of running the meetings
- Part of the MSNZ proposal is that some of the Tier 1 classes are to be provided with free entry
- MSNZ are proposing to the circuits/clubs that the cost of running the meeting can in major part be recovered from gate takings
- Are some of the circuits/clubs disputing the extent of gate takings and are accordingly claiming that the Tier 1 meetings will not be financially viable
- As a result have some of circuits listed on the Tier 1 calendar not confirmed that they will run the Tier 1 event.
Hopefully a response to the above will help sort the reality from the bull****.

[nistfan]

[QUOTE=Brian Budd;3164349]I note with interest the comments on this forum regarding the running of MotorSport New Zealand's Championships this summer, which on the whole are based on a lack of knowledge and a great deal of speculation.

Bill Brown is correct with his statement that if Clubs/Circuits have issues around the financial viability of the events they re-negotiate or walk away.

No individual or organisation is forcing Clubs and/or Circuits to get involved. All negotiations have been carried out against good business practice with all the facts on the table.

Quote

Am I reading that right or does that say" negotiations have been carried out against good business practice with the facts on the table.

That does sound like something MSNZ is good at.

[RogerH]

Originally Posted by nistfan

Am I reading that right or does that say" negotiations have been carried out against good business practice with the facts on the table.

That does sound like something MSNZ is good at.

Maybe it is the same "good business practice with all the facts on the table" approach that MSNZ used when they decided to spend $57,500 of member club's money on the New Generation NZV8's Intellectual Property on the basis that 29 cars needed to be sold to recover the outlay and avoid member clubs suffering a loss ..........

[Club racer]

Originally Posted by RogerH

Maybe it is the same "good business practice with all the facts on the table" approach that MSNZ used when they decided to spend $57,500 of member club's money on the New Generation NZV8's Intellectual Property on the basis that 29 cars needed to be sold to recover the outlay and avoid member clubs suffering a loss ..........

My beautiful wife is currently stitching up my sides because they split laughing. MSNZ - Good business practice? Thank you for coming on here Mr Budd and fronting up - but you guys adhering to good business practice...? Er, no, you don't and your continuing philosophy of treating all of the people out there who pay your salary as idiots is wearing a bit thin.

PLEASE just give me ONE example of good business practice undertaken by MSNZ in the last five years.

Just one, that'll do.

[Chappelli]

Originally Posted by Club racer

PLEASE just give me ONE example of good business practice undertaken by MSNZ in the last five years.

Just one, that'll do.

EASY! Getting Fritz Weiner's to sell their (delicious) product at the recent Pukekohe 600..... oh, what? That was the other guys.... oh, okay, um.... I got nothin'.

[E36ST]

Welcome to the forum Brian, it's great to see someone from MSNZ fronting up & contributing.

Stating that there is BS (your word not mine) appearing on this forum is in itself however misleading. Much of what has been posted here is indeed fact, so if there are specific areas that are incorrect then you are most welcome to correct them. After all, many posters are only making contributions based on what they see & hear in the absence of clear, honest & open communication from MSNZ.

Having some input in a public forum is probably the best thing that MSNZ can do to restore the confidence of your members, so I for one look forward to your contributions here.

So to kick off from me, you may have seen an earlier post from me regarding Martin Fine - despite everything he (and others) has done to bring the sport into disrepute, is MSNZ's sole officer according to the Companies Office. The obvious question is why is MSNZ continuing to be involved with these people?

[socram]

Originally Posted by Club racer

PLEASE just give me ONE example of good business practice undertaken by MSNZ in the last five years.
Just one, that'll do.

How about the on line renewal of Race licences? I can't fault it - especially now that at long last they don't delay your licence if you are on a foreign passport, by demanding physical proof of residency, such as a power bill, even though you have had a NZ race licence since 1984...

It may be stretching it to say it is good business practice, but I'd like to think that it is. Hey, a positive to MSNZ from me.

The other was the back down on date expiry on race harnesses with a five year extension. Good business practice, as it was driving people away. They listened to their membership on that one.

[Club racer]

Originally Posted by socram

How about the on line renewal of Race licences? I can't fault it - especially now that at long last they don't delay your licence if you are on a foreign passport, by demanding physical proof of residency, such as a power bill, even though you have had a NZ race licence since 1984...

It may be stretching it to say it is good business practice, but I'd like to think that it is. Hey, a positive to MSNZ from me.

The other was the back down on date expiry on race harnesses with a five year extension. Good business practice, as it was driving people away. They listened to their membership on that one.

OK fair enough - but these are really 'common sense things' - I'm not sure they represent good business practice? But hey, taking a common sense approach gets the thumbs up from me. Why don't MSNZ just concentrate on that and apply it to the thing that should be their total core - Governance? Even simple initiatives like the two examples you mention will unquestionably have done more over time to consolidate and develop our sport than any amateur-hour attempts at running and promoting a series that will - like it or loathe it - simply NEVER be able to compete with V8 SuperTourers. It's crazy to assume anything else.

GOVERN MSNZ !!!! Leave the series to the people that can run them, start working with them instead of against them (and by 'them' I mean all unaffiliated clubs, groups, other forms of motorsport, circuits, NOT just V8ST) and STOP WASTING MY MONEY!!!!!

[Mr Revhead]

Has any circuit that has run a tier one event not made money from it?

[Jerico]

Hello Brian are you still there? Tui billboard.