|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
20 Aug 2015, 19:13 (Ref:3567315) | #76 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,954
|
tobias gruner has a twitter post saying that each mclaren driver will use two new engines this weekend. i guess the clever bit is that they will essentially take two races worth of penalties this weekend freeing them to run unpenalized in Monza. (here)
way to turn a bad rule into an opportunity. brilliant imo! |
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
20 Aug 2015, 21:22 (Ref:3567345) | #77 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
Quote:
All joking aside... if the penalties are assessed for that weekend alone, how many engines could you conceivably cycle through in a weekend if you wanted to create a backlog? Assuming your mechanics were magicians... One per practice session and then one engine for qualification and race? Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
20 Aug 2015, 21:37 (Ref:3567349) | #78 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,241
|
Quote:
Oh well, at least the pressure is off this weekend now and it becomes a glorified test session. |
|||
|
20 Aug 2015, 22:27 (Ref:3567368) | #79 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,954
|
Quote:
also i had assumed that Honda used up all of their tokens for the year with this upgrade. that is apparently not the case so i suspect another upgrade will come before the end of the year (which is perhaps what Arai was talking about) so im guessing we will see them use this trick again at some point....unless the other teams have a meltdown and start complaining. either way this sort of lateral thinking is what i love about Mclaren. the remainder of the season might just be a test session for them but i feel like their fighting back might also be the only highlight left for the remainder of the season. |
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
21 Aug 2015, 09:45 (Ref:3567455) | #80 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 717
|
I'm fairly certain the penalties roll over. If they get a 10 place grid penalty and can't serve all of the penalty, they must continue serving the penalty until it is all paid up. If this is not the case I'll not only stand corrected, I'll also be happy.
So far McLaren Honda is not really demonstrating a big improvement, but I suppose they are very close of speed with Williams and Sauber, so not entirely bad. |
|
|
21 Aug 2015, 12:34 (Ref:3567474) | #81 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,491
|
Quote:
'Following a rule change last month, the most a driver can be penalised is to be demoted to the back of the grid,' And on the official website: 'The ensuing penalties - to be confirmed by stewards later - will likely drop both McLarens to the back end of the grid. With untaken grid drops no longer converted into in-race penalties following the recent rule change, it raises the likelihood of McLaren taking the opportunity to use a further, eighth engine on both cars on Saturday. Such a change would incur further penalties, but these would have little or no impact on the team's starting positions for Sunday's race.' |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
21 Aug 2015, 12:49 (Ref:3567481) | #82 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
McLaren was dismal in FP1 for Belgium GP and they seem to be just as bad in FP2 (running right now). How much is car and how much is power unit? I think they were slow at the end of Kemmel straight.
Richard |
|
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
21 Aug 2015, 14:27 (Ref:3567498) | #83 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,954
|
i would have expected them to put in more then 15 or so laps each per session.
edit: some red flags? |
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
21 Aug 2015, 15:30 (Ref:3567511) | #84 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,112
|
They didn't run many laps. I expect red flags had some impact, but I think they just were not out on track much.
Regarding FP2 speed traps data. I caught one of the graphics on screen and it showed McLaren down near the bottom, but... they were not alone. Williams was back there as well (and lingering at the back half on lap times as well). Given Williams is running Mercedes power, I am starting to come around to the idea that the problems with McLaren (and Williams) is not mostly down to the powerplant. Richard |
|
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
21 Aug 2015, 16:35 (Ref:3567522) | #85 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,750
|
Well we know it's a team decision and not one made by the drivers alone, so the team should be penalised not the driver.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
21 Aug 2015, 17:24 (Ref:3567532) | #86 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,241
|
Quote:
Back on topic: Honda's improvements appear very modest (putting it kindly), and the FIA have dished out 55 places worth of grid penalties for their troubles Apparently the speed deficit was up to 23km/h at the end of the Kemmel Straight (I'm struggling to find full speed trap figures though). Perhaps they'll turn up the wick a bit tomorrow. |
|||
|
21 Aug 2015, 20:46 (Ref:3567566) | #87 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,563
|
It looks like this season is a complete write off as far as McLaren is concerned with the new engine upgrade leaving them more or less where they have been all season (unless the new engine is not going into the cars until Saturday).
However engine is only part of the PU problem as their MGU-K is apparently giving away 150 H.P. to the opposition. No wonder the McLaren's are so slow up the hill to Les Combes. The MGU-K will not be solved this season either according to Eric Boullier. On the car side the McLaren is weak in fast corners so overall not looking good for Spa, Monza, Suzuka, Interlagos............. http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...594.1432368537 At this rate it will be 2018 before McLaren will be challanging for race wins |
|
|
22 Aug 2015, 02:03 (Ref:3567614) | #88 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
I think Arai san better go and recalibrate his dynamometer!
The good news about only having one customer team is you can share the blame when your engine is faulty, there is no corroborating evidence from other teams. |
|
|
22 Aug 2015, 12:36 (Ref:3567671) | #89 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,750
|
Quote:
Back on topic both McLarens fail to get into Q2. |
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
22 Aug 2015, 15:05 (Ref:3567690) | #90 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,976
|
Quote:
There has to be a limitation on engine changes, otherwise someone would be using one qually engine and one race engine per GP and the costs would be just ridiculous. So having set a limit of x engines per year, how do you enforce it? Telling teams they can't race for the rest of the season is a no-goer. Applying a grid penalty ensures that there is plenty of disincentive to swap engines willy-nilly, yet keeps the show on the road. I really don't get this idea that only the team should receive certain penalties because the failure was outside the driver's control. What about when a mechanic fails to tighten a wheel properly? Are you going to give the driver points even when his wheel fell off? What about when the driver bins it? Are you going to give the team constructor points for where they were when the crash happened? |
|||
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was. |
22 Aug 2015, 20:51 (Ref:3567750) | #91 | ||||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,750
|
I won't dispute that.
Quote:
Quote:
Anway both McLarens are at the back row of the grid. If they can salvage anything tomorrow that would be an achievement. |
||||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
22 Aug 2015, 20:59 (Ref:3567755) | #92 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 717
|
A full 1 second off the pace of their nearest rival, a Sauber.
|
|
|
22 Aug 2015, 21:05 (Ref:3567756) | #93 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,976
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
The older I get, the faster I was. |
22 Aug 2015, 21:11 (Ref:3567758) | #94 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,750
|
I was listening to Eddie Jordan on BBC 2, after qualifying and he said he thought McLaren.Ron should have waited until next season and not put pressure on Honda to return this season. I think he's right.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
22 Aug 2015, 21:49 (Ref:3567767) | #95 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,954
|
thats a hard call to make even in hindsight imo.
would a continued relationship with Merc have been better then having the money Honda have invested in McLaren? tough call. |
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
23 Aug 2015, 01:43 (Ref:3567802) | #96 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
Quote:
The team screws up the driver loses! Motor racing is inherently uncertain, what about the penalty you suffer when some muppet drives into the side of your car? If you wish to make it fairer go back to discounting 2 or three race results in a season. |
||
|
23 Aug 2015, 01:45 (Ref:3567803) | #97 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,088
|
There is even a typo in the Honda slogan
Honda, The Power of Dreams. should read Honda, The Dreams of Power. |
|
|
23 Aug 2015, 01:51 (Ref:3567805) | #98 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,750
|
I was wondering about that my self but considering F1's had it's Summer vacation and with all Honda's pronouncements and with 9 races to go including this one, I think it's a fair point. Whatever people might say about Eddie Jordan, he makes a fair point.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Aug 2015, 03:08 (Ref:3567816) | #99 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,750
|
Tbh, with modern telemetry read out, I don't think any Team Principle would ever let either scenario go that far.
|
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
23 Aug 2015, 06:59 (Ref:3567848) | #100 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,705
|
I personally don't think it would have made much difference, time with the PSU in the car under genuine race conditions seems to be most important. A few days ago Mr Arai was claiming major steps forward (presumably on the strength of their recent dyno testing) but with the unit in the car they're still miles off their opposition (unless Fernando & Jenson we seriously sand-bagging, but I can see no point in that despite knowing they're starting from the back of the grid).
|
||
__________________
Incognito: An Italian phrase meaning Nice Gearchange! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Ghosn: "Renault won't stick around if we can't compete". | Knowlesy | Formula One | 15 | 28 May 2007 12:20 |
Winton can’t compete with richer raceways...... | retro | Australasian Touring Cars. | 28 | 25 Jul 2006 00:33 |
Can Button Compete with the Likes of Kimi And Alonso | marzF1rocks | Formula One | 22 | 31 Mar 2006 11:59 |
Kimi Raikkonen and McLaren - can they continue their current form? | Yoong Montoya | Formula One | 23 | 1 May 2003 00:26 |
Can the Pilbeam compete with the Reynard and the MG Lola? | H16 | Sportscar & GT Racing | 8 | 27 Jan 2003 16:51 |