Saloon car series

[Matt Speakman]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Unfortunately the way of this sport, if you can't run do motor racing!

Used to sprint as a nipper...went on to throw javelin then hammer...tried the pole vault but that didn't work out. Still run...up to 7 miles...

[Mark Bailey]

I use to race against Matt in the Supercoupe cup, hi Matt.

The series use to have 2 grids of ex one make championship cars. Racing was always varied and close allowing you to enjoy racing anywhere in the field regardless of your money/car/talen. I decided to leave for for two reasons.

1. Cost. Membership fees of the club and then series rose to about £300 even before you had to pay £290 for a double header.

2. Tyres. At £500 for a set of slicks that some guys were using 2 sets per weekend was too expensive for me. I much prefer championships that allow 'road' based tyres which are half the cost and last 4/5 rounds.

For me its all about big grids of cars, racing throughout the field, sensible membership fees, affordable races, blue book tyres to allow for individual budget.

[johnw]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Unfortunately the way of this sport, if you can't run do motor racing!

Have you been at the Valium again Al?

[andy97]

How about having a "selling plate" saloon car series, ie open rules within certain limits (steel shell, front engine from same manufacturers range as the body, 4 doors etc etc) but....anyone can make an offer for anyone else's car up to, say, £10k. Owners valuation of their own car could be placed in a sealed envelope with the organisers and all bids within 10% of the valuation (or better) must be accepted.

Should reduce the incentive to spend a fortune on trick parts.

I'll get my coat!

[greenamex2]

No doubt Al will join in but Mod Prods used to have that.

It was scrapped because people with more expensive cars wanted to enter.

Probably OK in a series that isn't struggling for entries, but in that case you don't need it!

[johnw]

Nice idea but it has never worked.
I'm sure Al will be along to tell us about a £10K selling plate with cars owing their owners £30K+.
Tell them they have to sell, and they take their car and go elsewhere.

[greenamex2]

Of if someone wanted to offer me £10K for my Corolla they are welcome to it!

[Al Weyman]

I thought I posted about the seling plate in ModProds, must be going senile.
Yes we used to have that and yes it was withdrawn when the big spenders wanted to enter and in some ways a pity as they were halcyon days back then I can tell you. I did suggest an alternative an engine selling plate but that went down like a lead balloon but I thought was more practical. The point was though John don't enter the 30k car if they did not want to loose it and anyhow you would not have to sell, that would be unlawful anyhow, you would just have to bugger off. I bet in any of the CTRCC championships a 15k plate would cover most cars with the exception of some Hot Rods in CT.

Oh the running bit was a joke guys forgot me smiley sorry and I did mean run competitivly like sprinting.

[Matt Speakman]

Hi Mark, long time no speak. Didn't realise people were buying a set of tyres per meeting - must admit I got carried away in 2004 & was buying two new tyres per meeting as well as front pads & going testing....spent a few £ more than expected but all good fun! Shame it ended...

[big andy]

denis i would have done some rounds of your championship BUT theres no toyo tyres that fit in fact theres no list tyres for my car so any championship i do must be free on tyres
with list tyres and slick racing tyres costing the about the same why do so many championships insist on using list 1a 1b tyres?

[greenamex2]

Originally Posted by big andy

denis i would have done some rounds of your championship BUT theres no toyo tyres that fit in fact theres no list tyres for my car so any championship i do must be free on tyres
with list tyres and slick racing tyres costing the about the same why do so many championships insist on using list 1a 1b tyres?

Slicks = £120 each
Toyo's = £40 each

Slicks = One race meeting
Toyo's = One year

That'll be why then!

PS You and Al should get together and start an anti-one make tyre club! What do you guys run!

[big andy]

DONT MAKE ME LAUGHT slicks last a hole season 12 races toyo are not £40 pounds each if you are not part of the toyo championship

[johnw]

Originally Posted by big andy

with list tyres and slick racing tyres costing the about the same why do so many championships insist on using list 1a 1b tyres?

You must have found some super cheap slicks then Andy

Edit, just seen your reply.
What size list tyres do you need?

[big andy]

i only run 13 inch tyres if i shop about thar ain t that dear and theres always loads on ebay second hand

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by big andy

DONT MAKE ME LAUGHT slicks last a hole season 12 races toyo are not £40 pounds each if you are not part of the toyo championship

I bought some T1Rs last year for my road car for the same size I need for my race car - around £80 delivered and fitted, iirc, for a pair. I'm not a Toyo racer.

All the slicks I have were £150 a set, but they've been through a heat cycle or two on a Britcar ITR, and they were the cheapest I could find new or used. I doubt they'll last as long as a new set of Toyos would, tho I'm going to give it a go!

[big andy]

T1Rs aint a proper race tyre like say a dunlop R or a avon ACB 10 thats why there cheap ,proper race tyres arent that much cheaper than slicks in 13 inch anyway dont no about bigger sizes though

[R59]

I would expect to get at least 4 hrs running out of a set of Dunlop Slicks.
If you then run shorter races, I'd expect about three races before the heat cycles degrade their performance, but could carry on running them if I wasn't worried about a second or so a lap. If it were OK (most series ban it's use) to use "Grip", I could bring them back to almost new condition (in terms of adhesion) and make them last a full 4hrs.

That's 8 meetings based on 15mins qual, 15mins race.

When I ran the Nova, I could get 6 meetings out of a pair of fronts (shaved to 4mm) before they were eaten too much. Rears lasted for a season at least, until they got too hard.

And Andy, I paid 37.50 each (plus VAT) for 195/50x15's without the discount.

I'm sure if I ever put road rubber on my current animal, it'd eat a set in a 20min race (rears - and shaved to 4mm).

Denis, I see what you're asking.

How to modify modprods to stimulate it's entries.

I know some may see if as selfish, but what mods would make your corolla, or cars like it, competitive? (other than adding a 100Kg penalty to the pugs!) I know that you yearn for a dry sump, or how about an external oil pump? 5-link rear end?

Have you considered success ballast? Upping the minimum weights?

Are Toyo still on board for next year? Might be an idea to go open rubber (list 1a/1b) to encourage some cross-pollenation with people from other championships (like BMW's, CTCRC, etc..).

[Alan Cherry]

Originally Posted by big andy

DONT MAKE ME LAUGHT slicks last a hole season 12 races toyo are not £40 pounds each if you are not part of the toyo championship

I've just bought half a dozen Toyo proxes for the ashtray (15") at £60 each inc vat - I run in the DTRC, so don't get the special deals. Bought them mainly as the car will fit into other series.
Only used them for 1 qualifying and 2 races at Snetterton so far, but they feel predictable and the wear rate seems pretty good ( especially the two that haven't been on the car so far ) IMHO I would say they are not as grippy as the new correct slick for the car, but are better than a knackered set of slicks, or slicks bought with the wrong compound.
Perhaps a control tyre could be thrown into the debate - provided one was produced in enough sizes to suit all the competing cars.
I got 20 compomotive rims with the Astra when I bought it, and wouldn't want to spend any more money to enter a series that required new wheel sizes !

[johnw]

List 1B Toyo R888's
--------------------RRP-----Ch'p Price
185/60 VR13 80V 2G £64.99 £51.08
205/60 VR13 86V 2G £83.99 £62.22
VAT Inclusive

I'm sure that you can pay less for some shagged ones off Ebay though Andy

[big andy]

i personal only buy NEW hoosier r25 a 205 60 13 may well do for a road saloon but my wheels are ten inch wide theres nothing in ROAD tyres wide enough

[Al Weyman]

Another point with a list 1a/b you can get away with out the need for a set of wets if you are on a tight budget (me)!

[johnw]

Originally Posted by big andy

theres nothing in ROAD tyres wide enough

I'm sure there isn't in 13" diameter.

[Tony_Simpson]

From what i can gather from all of this is simple rules, lots of classes.

in other words K.I.S.S.!!!!!

what about a set of rules similar to the SRGT series. that is a power to weight type class structure.

have 4-5 classes at various specs. people can spend what they like making it lighter and on engines, and all they would do is go up a class.

have a tyre width restriction per class, all run on list 1a/1b or what ever its called.

maybe have a weight penalty system for class winners to keep them under control.

[Al Weyman]

Oh not the power weight thing again, I thought from previous discussions here it was apparent there is absolutely no way to police it. Modern electronics can turn off and on a 100bhp at the flick of a hidden switch and how do you intend to measure a 600bhp car at the track and just after a race?

[phansa88]

Got a better idea lets keep what we got it. seems to get us through the season. now let us all go down the pub and have a beer..........