Is Formula 1 broken?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

addressing the big picture issues is easier said then done. the decline of BE, the growing strength of the manus combined with their own in fighting has left a political vacuum. and to be fair whose vision should f1 follow? BE/CVC, the FIA, Merc, Ferrari, RB/Horner...none of the invested parties seem to have a handle on that question.

for the foreseeable future, fiddling with the little bits is about all anyone can manage imo.

I think I have posed this question before, but is there any chance a consortium of manufactures might buy F1 from CVC? It would formalize and increase their control. It would require some way for them to agree amongst themselves how to run things and for how partners to come and go. But much of that could happen behind closed doors (attractive to them).

I am not saying I think this should happen, but I am curious if it could happen.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think I have posed this question before, but is there any chance a consortium of manufactures might buy F1 from CVC? It would formalize and increase their control. It would require some way for them to agree amongst themselves how to run things and for how partners to come and go. But much of that could happen behind closed doors (attractive to them).

I am not saying I think this should happen, but I am curious if it could happen.

Richard

F1's version of CART?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

It would require some way for them to agree amongst themselves how to run things and for how partners to come and go. But much of that could happen behind closed doors (attractive to them).

im sure a mechanism could be worked out to allow for manus coming and going. in a fashion it may have been worked out through the nature of how teams are bought and sold already. if a manu joins they typically are buying up a previous entrant and their base and when they leave they sell those assets to the new entrant. so if a manu leaves, presumably they would sell their seat at the consortium table to the new entrant along with their facilities IP etc.

and as the manus coordinate more and more on the road car side of things, getting them to sit at the same table and work together might be becoming less of a challenge going forward.

that said, i am also unsure of whether or not this is the correct course.

[Paradise City]

The manufacturers wouldn't be interested in buying the sport and I for one would be glad for that. The sport would fall into greater instability if moody manufacturers got involved.

The FIA in its independent form is the perfect institution to govern the sport. The problem is that it has been subverted.

[Mike Harte]

The answer to this is really tied in with the IPO that was proposed to take place on the Singapore Stock Exchange back in, I think, 2012, but was withdrawn because of financial problems at that time; can't remember what they were now.

However, it was hoped by the FIA and FOM that the teams and/or the manufacturers would take an interest at that time. The thinking back then was that the teams wanted more money from FOM, so why shouldn't they also take some of the risk as well. A final resolution to the question will become clear shortly, because CVC has to sell it's holding by a date in 2018 due to covenants in it's contract when it purchased FOM/Top Delta originally. And 2018 is not far away.

[chillibowl]

yeah 2012 Eurozone financial crisis and then possibly delayed some more because of issue relating to BE's trial a few years later.

as crazy as it seems im not sure anyone wants to own F1 if BE is not the guy running the show. i even recall reading quotes from the manus at the time saying that even if they were the ones to buy it they would keep BE in charge.

presumably CVC would get rid of him if that made F1 more valuable and BE has certainly given enough reason to get himself fired...yet he remains.

its actually quite remarkable!

[MGDavid]

only BE knows where the bodies are !

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

only BE knows where the bodies are !

!?

[fredd1]

With the constant cry going out to the manufacturers that their p/us are too expensive, I can't see them stumping up eye watering piles of wonga to get CVC/FOM out of the pickle they created for themselves.....

[Mike Harte]

I think that this is a good article: http://www.pitpass.com/55590/Perception-Is-Reality

How many agree?

[chillibowl]

im in a bit of a bubble in that i dont know too many people who like F1 and certainly no one i can talk to about F1 anywhere near the level that the people here can talk about it.

so while there are many things with which i agree with in that article i think i am more of the opinion that F1's issues run deeper than a perception issue. i would say underlying the perception issue are some rather serious structural problems (leadership, size of budgets, financial distribution, car design issues) which supersede the perception issue.

but maybe thats just because i like talking about those types of issues more.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im in a bit of a bubble in that i dont know too many people who like F1 and certainly no one i can talk to about F1 anywhere near the level that the people here can talk about it.

so while there are many things with which i agree with in that article i think i am more of the opinion that F1's issues run deeper than a perception issue. i would say underlying the perception issue are some rather serious structural problems (leadership, size of budgets, financial distribution, car design issues) which supersede the perception issue.

but maybe thats just because i like talking about those types of issues more.

I agree with that. I think those involved don't see it or the one or two who might see it can't fix it. The other possibility is that it is in such a mess that given the management structures in place it can't be fixed. If that is the case then I might agree that it is broken.

The management issues would seem to be twofold looking from the outside in. The first concerns CVC who have a timetable and a profit goal to leave the sport that they have raped for all the money they can extract from it but in the end have finished up with an equity holding they cannot relinquish according to plan A they had when they went in. If that position continues it could prove fatal as for certain CVC are not going to turn around and put money in to save it.

The other management problem F1 has is on the technical side and where the sport is going on that level. The world is changing and what used to work no longer seems to work. Stupid decisions are made almost on a weekly basis for no good reasons and with no thought on what impact they will have.

I have said it before, there is no business plan beyond the idea that F1 is a cash cow that CVC will continue to milk for everything it can. That otherwise clever men and women can't see what is happening is absolutely astounding.

[Gingers4Justice]

Formula One was broken the moment it lost its one true sound...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgiBkydMW8k

[mikestow]

Dont you think that the Poison Dwarf wants F1 to fail the minute he goes or is forced to retire?Then the word would definitely be out that F1 can not possibly survive without him.It was bad enough under Balestre,but BE has let it slide and his unfortunate comments only make it worse.

[wolfhound]

In days gone by BCE could have been hauled before the FIA for bringing the sport into disrepute with what he has reputedly said in recent times..

[S griffin]

This is a classic case of peeing on someone's leg then saying it's raining. Bernie is criticizing a sport he's damaged, but always blaming everything else

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Formula One was broken the moment it lost its one true sound...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgiBkydMW8k

I can't say I ever liked that piece of music. I wonder if Bernie personally chose it?

[Mike Harte]

Rather than start another thread, I thought that I would post a link to a supplement that was in a newspaper yesterday that deals with some of the financial and other matters concerning F1. Some of it makes interesting reading, especially the bit that, according to CVC's Donald Mackenzie, the original investors that funded CVC's purchase of Topco Delta (FOM) have been repaid, and that there is now no requirement for CVC to sell it's remaining 35% shareholding.

See: http://raconteur.net/business-of-f1-2016

[Mike Harte]

Interesting that following the above newspaper supplement, but purely coincidental I would have thought, the GPDA have written an open letter to all the stakeholders in F1 about their concerns for the long term health of F1.

Whilst the drivers seem to worry about keeping existing "fans" happy as well as promoting the sport amongst younger people, those that actually control the sport are seemingly only concerned about making more money. It is noticeable that Top Delta's income stream is rising year on year, yet spectator and TV viewer numbers are decreasing, putting more and more pressure on race organisers.

It will be fascinating to see whether anything develops from this letter, and returning to my comments in another thread, I wonder if Mr Hamilton had any input in it's formulation?

See: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gp...-1-681793/?s=1

and: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/an...ut-681850/?s=1

[JeremySmith]

Thanks for posting that Mike ....
Yes all well and good that the GPDA write a letter letting all the relevant parties know that they have concerns about the health of F1, however I don't hear anything about what solutions they offer ??

[djinvicta]

And then today they announce from 2019 season, no more free viewing on TV. It is all on Sky pay to view from then.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by djinvicta

And then today they announce from 2019 season, no more free viewing on TV. It is all on Sky pay to view from then.

Excuse me for sounding like a broken record, but here in the USA we have been paying to watch F1 for years and years and years ...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Excuse me for sounding like a broken record, but here in the USA we have been paying to watch F1 for years and years and years ...

But are you paying an extra $35 per month (on top of your normal monthly fee) to just watch less than 2 races per month? I am not with Sky, and that is how much that my provider wants me to pay if I choose to take the extra subscription, and it would be for a minimum 1 year contract. Not bloody likely.

And if Sky gets an absolute monopoly, I can only see prices rising here in the UK. And anyway, as I wrote elsewhere, BCE gave an undertaking a few years ago that whilst he controlled the sport, he guaranteed that it would always be available live on FTA TV.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But are you paying an extra $35 per month (on top of your normal monthly fee) to just watch less than 2 races per month?

I am curious Mike... Is that fee just for the F1 races only, or is that some type of add-on package that contains a number of things (of which maybe the only one you are interested in is F1)?

In the US there is a handful of providers (various large cable providers and the two satellite providers) that deliver the non OTA/pay channels that covers F1. Generally speaking you can't purchase individual channels ala carte. You typically have to select a bundle that includes the NBC non-OTA channels (which show F1 in the US). Off hand, I would guess I pay around that much extra per month, but for a package that probably contains a number of other channels that I also watch.

Interestingly enough... NBC will show a few races OTA (free) such as Monaco, US, Canadian and Mexican (I think) GPs. Otherwise, I can't remember the last time F1 was free to view on a regular basis in the US. A long long time ago. The regular broadcasters don't care to pay the fees for what is still a niche product here. Not enough eyeballs to warrant showing it on the "big" networks. Even domestic series (other than NASCAR) have a rough time getting broadcast OTA/free.

I expect that long term streaming services will become the norm. I have accepted the niche nature of the product here and am generally OK with a move to streaming that as long as they are cost effective and they have a mechanism for either recording, or delayed viewing. Given the time difference, I typically no longer watch races live, but record and watch later in the day. I think some of the streaming solutions for various series makes it hard to view at a later time. Not to mention reliability issues with streaming.

I think I read somewhere that the contract for the US broadcast rights is up at the end of 2016. I guess my worst fear is that some other channel that I don't get (or can never get via my current provider) picks it up. Maybe even doing a really poor streaming service and charging too much for it. Its highly likely I would just stop watching it if I can't get at it relatively easily.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Richard, in answer to your question, it is an optional bundle of Sky Sports which holds absolutely no interest to me. I am not aware of Sky F being available as a stand alone premium channel on any other provider's packages.

And since I last looked at my cable company's prices last year, I see that the price has now gone up to just over $51 per month for a minimum 12 months' contract.