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7 Oct 2018, 12:12 (Ref:3855173) | #76 | ||
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It is getting monotonous, like Schumi and Ferrari from 2000-2004 and at Sochi there was a sort of Austria 2002 moment. I stopped watching F1 for a few years after Austria 2002. I might just do the same for a bit after this season, until something or someone comes along, that can pick the series up.
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7 Oct 2018, 12:55 (Ref:3855179) | #77 | ||
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Yep, but you can hardly blame Hamilton and Mercedes for the rest not being good enough. It was the same in the Vettel/RBR era, the Schumacher Ferrari era and countless other 'eras' before that. Not that I'm leaping to jim's defence here (wouldn't that be something jim? ), it floats his boat more than it does ours, but there's nothing at all unusual about it.
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280 days...... |
7 Oct 2018, 12:56 (Ref:3855180) | #78 | |||
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7 Oct 2018, 12:56 (Ref:3855181) | #79 | ||
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280 days...... |
7 Oct 2018, 13:02 (Ref:3855184) | #80 | |||
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7 Oct 2018, 13:03 (Ref:3855186) | #81 | ||
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"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..." jimclark |
7 Oct 2018, 13:51 (Ref:3855203) | #82 | ||
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Upon re-think, hypothetically, if a few big "cock-ups" by a team (mistakes/misfortunes I presume) result in championships, as opposed to a rash of poor decisions resulting in not, I would wanna be on the former rather than the latter.
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"Those were the days my friends. We thought they'd never end..." jimclark |
7 Oct 2018, 13:53 (Ref:3855205) | #83 | ||
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True, you tend to learn more from your mistakes than your successes......
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280 days...... |
7 Oct 2018, 14:13 (Ref:3855212) | #84 | |||
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dont want to pile on or get too far ahead, but i very much agree with others (you and Greem's in particular) that Ferrari really do seem lost and have been for some time now. they have a huge budget so maybe they will get it right again but i cant help but feel shades of Williams' and Mclaren's fall from perennial top class performers about to be repeated. |
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7 Oct 2018, 14:16 (Ref:3855214) | #85 | |
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Ferrari’s budget and facilities are so high, yet they keep throwing it away.
The big problem is that even if Lewis has two or three off weekends a season these days, he is still consistent enough to keep out of trouble and score some decent points |
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7 Oct 2018, 14:27 (Ref:3855224) | #86 | ||
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7 Oct 2018, 14:32 (Ref:3855230) | #87 | ||
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I think Ferrari will still be competitive next season and who knows, they may put the recent blunders behind them and finish the season strongly. It would be good to see. I don't see that the falling away over the last couple of months should herald a Williams or McLaren like decline....
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7 Oct 2018, 14:35 (Ref:3855232) | #88 | ||
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i'll try but i cant say i recall 2016 being that great for Ferrari. sure they made great strides in clawing back the engine deficit since then...but how much credit does close count for? they have probably spent well over a billion euros since 2016 with nothing to show.
anyways im sure im missing something else but im too afraid to ask. |
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7 Oct 2018, 14:40 (Ref:3855235) | #89 | ||
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7 Oct 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3855236) | #90 | ||
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My thoughts (which I think is more objective) is that we have to remember it’s not quite as simple as just “Honda”. Honda has clearly made huge strides with respect to reliability. I believe penalties at this point are predominately or fully about them introducing upgrades. Plus they are experiencing improvements in qualifying position and race pace. So the power unit upgrades are steps forward. Race results remain a struggle. Clearly the entire package (chassis, drivers, power unit) is seconds behind the front on pure lap time. Gasly looks very racy. Hartley (who I have given the benefit of doubt in the past) is inconsistent at best and lost at worst (at least in F1). In this race Hartley was eaten alive at the start of the race and then generally settled down, but the damage was done. Gasly did well early on, pushed about as far forward as it could be expected and then was a victim of poor strategy IMHO. In short they kept him out way too long. He was able to keep pace with Grosjean, but eventually drifted back to eight seconds behind (with the gap increasing every lap) when they both pitted on the same lap. Timing says they both had similar length stops, but that gap resulted in Grosjean rejoining in 7th and Gasly in 15th!! A huge group of other drivers split them. The team owes him an apology on that strategy call. At that point his race was over. They should have pitted many laps earlier. Other thoughts... I will pile on and agree that under pressure Vettel just makes mistakes. He gambles in the wrong way. Sort of like Max does, but Max has inexperience and youth as his excuse. Richard |
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7 Oct 2018, 14:41 (Ref:3855237) | #91 | |
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... Which is the point. The gap to Mercedes has decreased massively in less than two years, yet you proclaim the fall of Ferrari because they haven't managed to claw back quite enough just yet and can't beat a superior package.
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7 Oct 2018, 14:42 (Ref:3855240) | #92 | |
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7 Oct 2018, 14:45 (Ref:3855241) | #93 | |||
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Vettel finished 4th in the WDC with 212 points and was the only top driver to have a DNS at Bahrain. Ferrari finished 3rd in the WCC, with 398 points. |
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7 Oct 2018, 14:57 (Ref:3855246) | #94 | ||
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What, exactly, then are they consistently getting wrong? Why is it that year after year after year when the pressure arrives they demonstrate as a team that something is missing? What is it that is missing? In my view it's calm, consistent leadership - which Mercedes definitely have. Toto may not be everyone's cup of tea but he at the very least admits when they've made mistakes, as does their chief strategist, and they learn and move on. Ferrari are a big part of F1, but they're very frustrating to watch (and I've been watching them for a long, long time). Sometimes everything aligns and they can be sublime, but when things don't align... Reputations are hard to get rid of, especially when drivers and team management repeat the same mistakes over and over again over decades. |
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7 Oct 2018, 15:07 (Ref:3855248) | #95 | ||
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The only way to win in a car that's not the fastest is for the fastest team to implode and while Mercedes have made some howlers they've been pretty steady this year. |
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7 Oct 2018, 15:23 (Ref:3855252) | #96 | |||
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Fing agreement!!! Seriously, the Ferrari (and those that design, fabricate, develop, and "wrench" on) racing car itself will be again, I presume. It's Ferrari the decision makers (driver included...aka Vettel) that need to improve; and not just put the blunders behind but, also, to stop making more..... |
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7 Oct 2018, 15:39 (Ref:3855254) | #97 | |||
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I won't mention the real guy and his arse kicking Bruce (ooopppsss, I just did) and Denny show..... Last edited by jimclark; 7 Oct 2018 at 15:45. |
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7 Oct 2018, 16:41 (Ref:3855259) | #98 | ||
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Strategy killed any Ferrari comeback today. After the Max lunge..why not pit Vettel, fresh tyres and put him in clear air/track for 15 plus laps to push push push...Crazy.
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7 Oct 2018, 17:40 (Ref:3855266) | #99 | ||
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A few races ago it looked like Ferrari had the quicker car and Vettel driving well. Then he started driving poorly and the tram lost their advantage. For most anyway.
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Brum brum |
7 Oct 2018, 19:53 (Ref:3855277) | #100 | ||
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